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LIV Golf Tour (was "Alternative" Tours, Phil Cancelled)


iacas

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5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Bye bye!

He was just about off the PGA Tour anyway.

That was my thought too....complete non-factor on Tour now.  They're filling up those 48 spots and still haven't seen a name I care about

-Eric

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All players who cannot win on the PGA Tour anymore. It is as simple as that. Money rules! Playing good golf 2nd. 

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22 minutes ago, Friz said:

That was my thought too....complete non-factor on Tour now.  They're filling up those 48 spots and still haven't seen a name I care about

Yeah I agree. I liked DJ for awhile but other then him, I don’t see anyone I have any care at all to watch. 

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I enjoyed Brooks major run. Disappointed he left. Could care less when he speaks to media but game was fun to watch. 

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9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Yeah I agree. I liked DJ for awhile but other then him, I don’t see anyone I have any care at all to watch. 

C’mon man! You were the President of the Taylor Gooch fan club! You got that tatoo!😜

Agree, 54 hole snooze fest.

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20 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Wondering if DeChambeau did all this sort of research before switching??

I have to confess, I'm bummed about DeChambeau. BUT not surprised. 

I've always enjoyed the way he plays the game, he does stuff differently and I think that's good for the game. He also signed a buddy of mine's head cover a few years back and couldn't have been nicer to us. 

Having said that, He also often behaves like a big old baby and does some things I simply can't defend. When he berated the camera guy that was ridiculous. When he stomped off the range and buried his head against the wall to cry. That was not only ridiculous, but also weird and made me wonder if there was actually something wrong with him. (More than just being eccentric.) His two minute forty second putt was also non-defendable. 

I don't think he's a smart or as "engineering educated" as the media gives him credit for (No where near as smart as he thinks he is). But again, he's interesting and different and I've always argued that those characteristics make him good for the game. So, I was disappointed when he made the jump. BUT I was NOT surprised. I don't think he "gets it". I don't think he does his research on anything as much as he tries to portray himself as this man of study and logic. I think he sees himself as edgy and outside the box, but at the same time he can't read the room for s#it. His comments about vaccination were just embarrassing and I think show a real lack of seeing the big picture. So, I wasn't surprised when he jumped, but I remain disappointed. I've been disappointed in him several times in the past so, I'm getting used to it. 

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15 hours ago, Friz said:

That was my thought too....complete non-factor on Tour now.  They're filling up those 48 spots and still haven't seen a name I care about

I was honestly expecting more bombshell / shocker announcements than Matthew Wolff, Carlos Ortiz, and Eugenio Chacarra. 🤔 Which is not to say those are not coming, but at the moment, the whole enterprise is meh. Wolff exemplifies a characteristic shared by quite a number of LIV defectors: If their careers continue in the direction they are headed, they might never again have the leverage to command anywhere near the kind of money that LIV is offering. One could draw up a list of other likely jumpers on that basis alone. 

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On 6/26/2022 at 10:45 AM, Double Mocha Man said:

Wondering if DeChambeau did all this sort of research before switching??

It's weird because Bryson always struck me as a seeker of knowledge of sorts. He was always willing to learn about and incorporate information that other tour pros weren't. Then again, Bryson wouldn't be the first person to be intellectually curious about one aspect of reality and not at all in another. 

Constantine

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53 minutes ago, PatrickMurtha said:

I was honestly expecting more bombshell / shocker announcements than Matthew Wolff, Carlos Ortiz, and Eugenio Chacarra. 🤔 Which is not to say those are not coming, but at the moment, the whole enterprise is meh. Wolff exemplifies a characteristic shared by quite a number of LIV defectors: If their careers continue in the direction they are headed, they might never again have the leverage to command anywhere near the kind of money that LIV is offering. One could draw up a list of other likely jumpers on that basis alone. 

Seems like if they were coming, this would've been when.  First tournament on US soil, The Open has confirmed they can still play, US Open has passed....Brooks, Bryson, and maybe Patrick Reed were somewhat noteworthy, but not names I'll miss.  The other guys, seems like they're just loading up on middling PGA guys, and every one they get is one step closer to irrelevance.  I keep thinking they've got a hard cap at 48 guys....assuming these guys signing on are getting guaranteed spots in each field....I have to assume they are.  It'd be wildly reckless for them to make the jump without assurance they'll get to play.

-Eric

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22 minutes ago, Friz said:

Seems like if they were coming, this would've been when.  First tournament on US soil, The Open has confirmed they can still play, US Open has passed....Brooks, Bryson, and maybe Patrick Reed were somewhat noteworthy, but not names I'll miss.  The other guys, seems like they're just loading up on middling PGA guys, and every one they get is one step closer to irrelevance.  I keep thinking they've got a hard cap at 48 guys....assuming these guys signing on are getting guaranteed spots in each field....I have to assume they are.  It'd be wildly reckless for them to make the jump without assurance they'll get to play.

One would give a lot to peruse these contracts they are signing. I presume they include all kinds of non-disclosure / non-badmouthing clauses, which is interesting given that the defectors are putting this forward as a move TOWARDS freedom, not AWAY FROM it. I think that some of them anyway are going to discover that they have made a real Faustian bargain with some scary devilish masters. Brooks, Bryson, Phil, Sergio, Patrick - all these guys have created personas defined at least in part by their mouthing off whatever the hell they want to say. The LIV press conferences have already shown us, they are each of them going to be entirely scripted now. Wonder how they’ll like it? You don’t freewheel with the Saudis. 😳 Really, this whole thing is more like professional wrestling than golf (and I would trust the game outcomes about as much). 

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Brandel suggested on twitter that winnings of a tournament are exactly extra.  It comes from what they signed with LIV for.  I’m not sure where he got that information from, but that’d be interesting.  There has to be a ton of fine print in this.

I also saw that at these events, all signs that mention anything remotely political are banned from the event grounds.

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19 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Brandel suggested on twitter that winnings of a tournament are exactly extra.  It comes from what they signed with LIV for.  I’m not sure where he got that information from, but that’d be interesting.

So it's like a book advance, where the first sales of the book count against the advance?  Except it isn't paid off at all, where extra book sales get you mailbox money after the advance is paid for.

If true, this wouldn't surprise me, and may lead to a diminished product (even moreso).  What's the motivation to do better?  

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What I find sad is that these golfers spent their childhood and adolescence dreaming of and working hard to get to play on the PGA tour but now have sold out that dream for a big pot of cash.  There is a biblical sense to it, like Esau selling his birthright for a mess of pottage.

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But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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I like how LIV just dumps guys like Andy Ogletree (2019 Am Champ) when these guys sign on. Ogletree finished last in London and he is jettisoned to accommodate the Koepka's of the world. Too bad, but he made his own bed. 

Bill M

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On 6/21/2022 at 8:53 AM, PatrickMurtha said:

Even if LIV events are ultimately awarded OWGR points, they wouldn’t get MANY points, right, based on strength of field? So the defectors are almost bound to drop steadily in the world rankings?

I keep thinking about this. Let’s suppose that in the best-case scenario for LIV, their tournaments ARE awarded OWGR points. Follow my logic here and tell me where it might be faulty, because I would genuinely like to know. 

(1) I presume the OWGR would have to adjust for the very different LIV format, and I have no idea how they would do that, except to guess that points awarded could be lower simply because the format is not equivalent in difficulty.

(2) Points are based on Strength of Field, which would not be that strong NOW and is likely to diminish quite a bit further. If the OWGR ranking of individual LIV players drops, as it is almost bound to, then the Strength of Field for LIV tournaments would also drop (absent an infusion of higher-ranked players). This could create a vicious downward cycle. 

(3) Since there will be fewer LIV tournaments, LIV players would have fewer opportunities to amass OWGR points. And if they don’t meet the 40 event / 2 year minimum, that would have a negative impact too because of the mandatory 40 dividend.

(4) It would seem to me then, that the OWGR impact for LIV players might not be better than playing for a minor tour such as KFT or Canada or Korea. 

There are I am sure many of you who know a lot more about the OWGR than I do and can correct me where I’m wrong. 

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Some of your fears are allayed if they get to play DP World Tour events (though the DP World Tour will be rated less highly soon).

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

Some of your fears are allayed if they get to play DP World Tour events (though the DP World Tour will be rated less highly soon).

Oh yes, and possibly Asian Tour too, since that organization seems to be cooperating with LIV. But I still imagine that the overall OWGR impact for many LIV players would be pretty bad, especially those who are being honest when they state that one of their goals is to play a lot less.

Of course the PGA Tour would prefer that LIV players not get ANY OWGR points, and they might get that result. But even if they don’t, I don’t think they need lose too much sleep on that particular issue. I will be interested to see how many LIV players who are in the Top 100 now are still there at the end of this calendar year, points given or not.  

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