General COVID-19 Topic

[boogielicious]

Report: Florida May Have Undercounted Its COVID-19 Deaths by Thousands | Vanity Fair

---

What’s 4,924 extra deaths between friends?

COVID-19 has been more deadly in Florida than reported, especially in rural counties, study shows

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Many COVID deaths went unreported last year in Florida’s rural counties, allowing the...

 

Florida's COVID death count under new scrutiny following study

---

The number of COVID-19 deaths in Florida is facing new criticism following a study published this...

Wow! Florida must so so proud. And these are just the first few hits. Florida’s new motto should be The COVID Nursery State! Come get infected here and bring a new variant back home along with a sunburn and Mickey Mouse t-shirt!

While most people are doing there best to help mitigate this pandemic, the deniers and scofflaws are just extending it. And they pat themselves on the back for being tough guys. I find it so incredibly selfish. 

And to make matters worse, they mock those that are taking precautions. Pathetic. I find it comical that those nitwits that wear sidearms into Walmart think they are just being prepared but call out we that are wearing masks to be living in fear. I’m not living in fear. I’m being smart and protecting myself and others from extending this virus. If everyone had done this for the first month we’d have been out of this with hundreds of thousands of less deaths.

Think of it this way, the entire population of Wyoming has died from this virus. A whole state’s worth of people are gone. I guess it’s worth it so the selfish whiners don’t have to wear masks. F**k Wyoming I guess.  

Your are not being tough or living free or some such other bullsh*t. Your being selfish a-holes who were just lucky not to get it. And if you don’t get the vaccine, chances increase that you will get it and also add to new variants. Viruses can’t mutate without replicating. So another reason not to be proud of Florida. 

[iacas]

[Vinsk]

49 minutes ago, iacas said:

because others made a "risk tolerance" assessment that didn't include the risks to which they were subjecting others.

This. Please read and understand this @Braivo and others. This is such an important point.

16 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Report: Florida May Have Undercounted Its COVID-19 Deaths by Thousands | Vanity Fair

---

What’s 4,924 extra deaths between friends?

COVID-19 has been more deadly in Florida than reported, especially in rural counties, study shows

---

Many COVID deaths went unreported last year in Florida’s rural counties, allowing the...

 

Florida's COVID death count under new scrutiny following study

---

The number of COVID-19 deaths in Florida is facing new criticism following a study published...

Wow! Florida must so so proud. And these are just the first few hits. Florida’s new motto should be The COVID Nursery State! Come get infected here and bring a new variant back home along with a sunburn and Mickey Mouse t-shirt!

While most people are doing there best to help mitigate this pandemic, the deniers and scofflaws are just extending it. And they pat themselves on the back for being tough guys. I find it so incredibly selfish. 

And to make matters worse, they mock those that are taking precautions. Pathetic. I find it comical that those nitwits that wear sidearms into Walmart think they are just being prepared but call out we that are wearing masks to be living in fear. I’m not living in fear. I’m being smart and protecting myself and others from extending this virus. If everyone had done this for the first month we’d have been out of this with hundreds of thousands of less deaths.

Think of it this way, the entire population of Wyoming has died from this virus. A whole state’s worth of people are gone. I guess it’s worth it so the selfish whiners don’t have to wear masks. F**k Wyoming I guess.  

Your are not being tough or living free or some such other bullsh*t. Your being selfish a-holes who were just lucky not to get it. And if you don’t get the vaccine, chances increase that you will get it and also add to new variants. Viruses can’t mutate without replicating. So another reason not to be proud of Florida. 

[billchao]

3 hours ago, Braivo said:

People can make their own risk decisions from this point forward. 

No, they shouldn’t. That’s like saying we don’t need drunk driving laws because people can judge for themselves whether they want to risk driving drunk or not.

It’s a public health issue. If it were simply that one’s risk assessment affected only themselves, then it’s a different story, but but their decision for themselves can affect other people.

[Braivo]

It is healthy to question authority. Maybe they are right. If so, great! Their argument is only strengthened by our questions. 

Blindly trusting leaders has never worked out well in the long run. 

If testing and masking youth recreational soccer players was so effective, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Wouldn't states without such a rule be seeing more cases and deaths? Is there scientific evidence that testing and masking soccer players reduces spread? Of course not. It's arbitrary. You can go to a casino in Michigan, right now, and order a beer, sit at a slot machine, and remove your mask to drink you beer. But you can't play outdoor soccer without a mask. It's arbitrary and political. Casinos bring revenue to the state, so of course they get to be open. Youth soccer? Not profitable.

We could prevent many drunk driving deaths if we required breathalyzers to start the car. Who is in favor of that? 

At some point the tradeoffs between freedom and safety must be considered. We could eliminate almost all traffic deaths if vehicles were restricted to 25mph max. Would you favor that?

I have never said we should do NOTHING about Covid. Wear a mask indoors. Get a vax. But the measures are more effective and get more compliance when they seem to make sense and some consideration is given to getting the most benefit from the fewest number of restrictions. Questioning the masking of youth athletes during intense sporting events is not "Leon Letting" the situation. 

There are some estimates that 2-3 million kids have not attended a single day of school (online or in person) this last year. Their schools closed and they didn't have the access of the home life structure to attend online. What is the cost of that? 

And I will repeat this, when ANY questioning of authority places you in the extreme anti-vax covid hoax bucket then we are done here. There is zero point in discussing this topic any further. If the only way to participate in this discussion is in agreement with the mainstream and the moderators, then it is futile. 

Thunderous applause for people who agree, and a swarm of criticism for those who do not. 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

5 hours ago, David in FL said:

When does it end?

July 27, 2021, 8:52AM, PDT.

(It's a moving  target right now, too early to lock down a date)

5 hours ago, Braivo said:

It's over when the citizens of any given state demand that it's over.

Sometimes the citizens are running amuck and don't know what they're doing.  Then they need smarter and wiser minds to intercede.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Blindly trusting leaders has never worked out well in the long run. 

Nothing here is blindly trusting our leaders. Its trusting the science community who put unknown hours into getting us this vaccine in a timeframe thought impossible. 

7 minutes ago, Braivo said:

If testing and masking youth recreational soccer players was so effective, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Wouldn't states without such a rule be seeing more cases and deaths? Is there scientific evidence that testing and masking soccer players reduces spread? Of course not. It's arbitrary. You can go to a casino in Michigan, right now, and order a beer, sit at a slot machine, and remove your mask to drink you beer. But you can't play outdoor soccer without a mask. It's arbitrary and political. Casinos bring revenue to the state, so of course they get to be open. Youth soccer? Not profitable.

Some states are more paranoid than others. It also maybe based on which city you live in, or what league, or what school. Not every situation can be explained away with jaded responses. 

8 minutes ago, Braivo said:

At some point the tradeoffs between freedom and safety must be considered. We could eliminate almost all traffic deaths if vehicles were restricted to 25mph max. Would you favor that?

Not the same. Traffic deaths don't come close to what is happening here. Yes, there is inherent risk. When I am in the car by myself, I drive a bit faster on the freeways then if I have family members in the car. I am also a really good driver and know my skills. 

I have no clue when someone will infect me with the virus and in some situations I have no clue if I could infect my family. One accident may injure 1-4 people. One infection can cause a cascading result across an entire community. 

I guess if you want the freedom to be an asshole, go ahead. People have the freedom to judge the choice you made. So, don't get pissed off when people call you an asshole. Anyone who has not gotten vaccinated, who doesn't wear a mask, just because they claim "FREEDOM" is an asshole. 

Guess what, there is no mandate to get vaccinated. Its totally up to you. In Ohio, people sued the governor and won. Gyms were allowed to open up. Most didn't after the ruling. Which shows you that at least some people had their heads on straight. 

I get it, the over the top restrictions on youth athletic sports. We were the first to cry when states were banning golf! You get some sympathy here, but in the end, this whole  Risk notion, and too much government stick you got is a bit much. 

Heh, I am an engineer by trade, we are all about safety factors and conservative judgement calls. I forgone applaud our governor for being level headed, listening to the medical professionals, and saving lives. 

[Elmer]

6 minutes ago, Braivo said:

It is healthy to question authority. Maybe they are right. If so, great! Their argument is only strengthened by our questions. 

Blindly trusting leaders has never worked out well in the long run. 

If testing and masking youth recreational soccer players was so effective, wouldn't everyone be doing it? Wouldn't states without such a rule be seeing more cases and deaths? Is there scientific evidence that testing and masking soccer players reduces spread? Of course not. It's arbitrary. You can go to a casino in Michigan, right now, and order a beer, sit at a slot machine, and remove your mask to drink you beer. But you can't play outdoor soccer without a mask. It's arbitrary and political. Casinos bring revenue to the state, so of course they get to be open. Youth soccer? Not profitable.

We could prevent many drunk driving deaths if we required breathalyzers to start the car. Who is in favor of that? 

At some point the tradeoffs between freedom and safety must be considered. We could eliminate almost all traffic deaths if vehicles were restricted to 25mph max. Would you favor that?

I have never said we should do NOTHING about Covid. Wear a mask indoors. Get a vax. But the measures are more effective and get more compliance when they seem to make sense and some consideration is given to getting the most benefit from the fewest number of restrictions. Questioning the masking of youth athletes during intense sporting events is not "Leon Letting" the situation. 

There are some estimates that 2-3 million kids have not attended a single day of school (online or in person) this last year. Their schools closed and they didn't have the access of the home life structure to attend online. What is the cost of that? 

And I will repeat this, when ANY questioning of authority places you in the extreme anti-vax covid hoax bucket then we are done here. There is zero point in discussing this topic any further. If the only way to participate in this discussion is in agreement with the mainstream and the moderators, then it is futile. 

Thunderous applause for people who agree, and a swarm of criticism for those who do not. 

 

I am all for questioning authority, but facts and science, not so much.
Just looking at those questioning how their "freedom" has been infringed upon and you can who has a blind allegiance.  Most of those screaming the loudest neither have medical degrees, advance degree i biology or infectious diseases. In my experience, most of the "non-believers" get their talking points from an internet chat board run by a 20 something-year old incel in Japan! 

 

Do masks work? Sure, my kids have been playing competative sports inside and outside since last summer. No colds, no flu and no illnes. Why? Because they are not inhaling your kids germs. The idea behind masks, is basically so I dont get what you have. And by the looks of those non maskers, I dont want anything they are breathing. 

 

And I am not sure of the reasoning regarding limiting motor vehicles to 25 MPH to reduce drunk driving deaths.  You limit the sale of or consumption of Alcohol. 
You want to limit the spread of covid you limit the availability of covid. since we cant lock everyone in bubbles, you wear a mask.

Unless you are in Florida, where they just use an eraser and make up their own numbers.....

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Report: Florida May Have Undercounted Its COVID-19 Deaths by Thousands | Vanity Fair

---

What’s 4,924 extra deaths between friends?

COVID-19 has been more deadly in Florida than reported, especially in rural counties, study shows

---

Many COVID deaths went unreported last year in Florida’s rural counties, allowing the...

 

Florida's COVID death count under new scrutiny following study

---

The number of COVID-19 deaths in Florida is facing new criticism following a study published this...

Wow! Florida must so so proud. And these are just the first few hits. Florida’s new motto should be The COVID Nursery State! Come get infected here and bring a new variant back home along with a sunburn and Mickey Mouse t-shirt!

While most people are doing there best to help mitigate this pandemic, the deniers and scofflaws are just extending it. And they pat themselves on the back for being tough guys. I find it so incredibly selfish. 

And to make matters worse, they mock those that are taking precautions. Pathetic. I find it comical that those nitwits that wear sidearms into Walmart think they are just being prepared but call out we that are wearing masks to be living in fear. I’m not living in fear. I’m being smart and protecting myself and others from extending this virus. If everyone had done this for the first month we’d have been out of this with hundreds of thousands of less deaths.

Think of it this way, the entire population of Wyoming has died from this virus. A whole state’s worth of people are gone. I guess it’s worth it so the selfish whiners don’t have to wear masks. F**k Wyoming I guess.  

Your are not being tough or living free or some such other bullsh*t. Your being selfish a-holes who were just lucky not to get it. And if you don’t get the vaccine, chances increase that you will get it and also add to new variants. Viruses can’t mutate without replicating. So another reason not to be proud of Florida. 

For every story like this you find a story about states that are over counting deaths.  

 

IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

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(CHICAGO) WEEK - State Health officials have acknowledged a bending of the "Covid Curve" seeing smaller spikes in positive cases, or rather, not as exponential of a jump as recorded...

 

I won’t even bother posting stories about the financial and emotional damage caused by lockdowns, mask wearing, school closures, etc...

If it makes you feel virtuous or even genuinely safer to wear a mask, social distance, keep your kids home, or get a vaccine, then please, do so and simply do your best to avoid the millions of people who feel differently than you.  By some counts the overall morbidity of Covid has been misrepresented significantly.  I honestly don’t know, but if you’d rather avoid Florida, Texas, or the many other states like us, then by all means do so.  Heck, I’m not headed to any lockdown states either, so...  

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

5 hours ago, Braivo said:

People can make their own risk decisions from this point forward. 

I think if "people" in general were allowed to make their own risk decisions a year ago we'd be worse off than India.  The populace usually goes for what feels good, not what IS good.  

[Shorty]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

 

And to make matters worse, they mock those that are taking precautions. Pathetic. I find it comical that those nitwits that wear sidearms into Walmart think they are just being prepared but call out we that are wearing masks to be living in fear. I’m not living in fear.

Too true. Imagine carrying a gun around for "protection" but thinking a mask makes you look weak. The rest of the world can only marvel at how wonderful it must be to live in a place where some people think that the pictutre below is an expression of "freedom". Sad.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shorty

[Double Mocha Man]

Here's a good one.  I inquired of a retail clerk this morning if she had scheduled her Covid shot.  "No, I'm not good at being on time for appointments."  So I asked her if she was on time for work this morning.  She was.

[boogielicious]

21 minutes ago, David in FL said:

For every story like this you find a story about states that are over counting deaths.  

 

IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

---

(CHICAGO) WEEK - State Health officials have acknowledged a bending of the "Covid Curve" seeing smaller spikes in positive cases, or rather, not as exponential of a jump as recorded...

 

I won’t even bother posting stories about the financial and emotional damage caused by lockdowns, mask wearing, school closures, etc...

If it makes you feel virtuous or even genuinely safer to wear a mask, social distance, keep your kids home, or get a vaccine, then please, do so and simply do your best to avoid the millions of people who feel differently than you.  By some counts the overall morbidity of Covid has been misrepresented significantly.  I honestly don’t know, but if you’d rather avoid Florida, Texas, or the many other states like us, then by all means do so.  Heck, I’m not headed to any lockdown states either, so...  

 

 

Problem is David it’s like having a peeing section of a pool. It is not effective unless we all do it. How can we avoid contact when 40% won’t be responsible for some macho reason. And it’s not like these folks aren’t moving around the country out of sunny Florida, Texas, etc. I’m not feeling virtuous, I am being responsible. You are not. 

Wars cause financial and emotional damage too. And yet we follow our leaders guidance there. Safety is all of our responsibility, not just your so-called virtuous types. Did you disregard commanding officer’s orders when you didn’t feel like it? No, you respected the chain of command. Our medical and scientific leaders, which we have placed in these leadership roles, have strongly urged us all to pitch in. And yet you disregard them because you think you are smarter than them.

If we had ALL worn masks in the first month, the financial and emotional toll would have been orders of magnitude lower. But the irresponsible types have just thrown gasoline on the fire with their cavalier arrogance and made it much, much worse.
 

[David in FL]

8 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Problem is David it’s like having a peeing section of a pool. It is not effective unless we all do it. How can we avoid contact when 40% won’t be responsible for some macho reason. And it’s not like these folks aren’t moving around the country out of sunny Florida, Texas, etc. I’m not feeling virtuous, I am being responsible. You are not. 

Wars cause financial and emotional damage too. And yet we follow our leaders guidance there. Safety is all of our responsibility, not just your so-called virtuous types. Did you disregard commanding officer’s orders when you didn’t feel like it? No, you respected the chain of command. Our medical and scientific leaders, which we have placed in these leadership roles, have strongly urged us all to pitch in. And yet you disregard them because you think you are smarter than them.

If we had ALL worn masks in the first month, the financial and emotional toll would have been orders of magnitude lower. But the irresponsible types have just thrown gasoline on the fire with their cavalier arrogance and made it much, much worse.
 

So don’t associate with people who have moved around the country if doing so makes you feel unsafe.

As for feeling responsible vice virtuous. Tomato / Tomauto

If you’re doing it for me, you needn’t bother.  I won’t hold it against you, I promise   😊

[Shorty]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

So don’t associate with people who have moved around the country if doing so makes you feel unsafe.

 

How would you recommend identifying such people in the supermarket or on the street?

You seem to be suggesting that people who are treating this like a deadly disease are somehow mindless and that each person has a the right to make a "risk assessment" in relation to how they treat others. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Shorty

[DaveP043]

The one thing that the past year has made even more clear to me is that we, as a society, cannot trust individuals to do what is appropriate to keep other people safe.  Just as people will drive 100 mph on a highway to save 5 minutes of their own time, just as they would still smoke in crowded rooms if permitted,  they'll also continue to refuse to wear masks because of the tremendous inconvenience, they'll refuse to take a vaccine.  And their decisions will keep the danger higher for all of society than it otherwise would be.

[Double Mocha Man]

I think we've achieved full polarization on this topic.  😁💀

[Braivo]

15 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I think we've achieved full polarization on this topic.  😁💀

Correct. There is zero point in debating this topic anymore. Everyone has made up their minds and the more we debate the more certain they are that they are correct. Waste of time. 

 

19 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The one thing that the past year has made even more clear to me is that we, as a society, cannot trust individuals to do what is appropriate to keep other people safe.  Just as people will drive 100 mph on a highway to save 5 minutes of their own time, just as they would still smoke in crowded rooms if permitted,  they'll also continue to refuse to wear masks because of the tremendous inconvenience, they'll refuse to take a vaccine.  And their decisions will keep the danger higher for all of society than it otherwise would be.

So how do you correct for this? Ever increasing levels of rules and restrictions? More mandates? Careful, there's a lot of stupid out there.