General COVID-19 Topic

[Double Mocha Man]

32 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

... because people tend to huddle with their tribe.

Are there no independent thinkers anymore?

[imsys0042]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Are there no independent thinkers anymore?

I try as hard as I can.   If I see something on the news channel, I try and verify elsewhere.   if a news story says something that is important enough for me to take action on something, I look it up elsewhere.   I check the CDC web site if I see something reported to verify.  You can't base important decisions on a single source.  For anything important, we have a lot of reliable options these days.

I think what happens is either confirmation bias, or you get riled up because the other side tries to own you, or does something that outrages you.  At that point, it's hard to not be tribal.  You have to separate out the policy from the people.

[iacas]

53 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

The same consideration should be given to people who don't vaccinate.

Nah.

Smoking causes more damage to the smoker than those exposed to second-hand smoke, but as we came to know how damaging second-hand smoke can be, non-smokers started to be less "compassionate" toward those smoking in their presence.

This is more like that than someone getting liver poisoning because they drank heavily. Their choices directly affect those around them, the health of others.

53 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

influenza vaccine, but I'm guessing it's less than 50% of eligible people choose to vaccinate themselves.

I get it most years, but for most people, the flu doesn't put you on a ventilator or cause death nearly as frequently as COVID. Comparing COVID to the flu is dumb regardless of the angle from which you're (general "you") coming at it.

Only the anti-vaxxers tend to not get their MMR vaccines, etc. Colleges have been requiring a few vaccines for admission for decades. This is more like that than the "flu vaccine."

53 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Almost all of us have grown up in a society where vaccines were required to attend school, were recommended by doctors for international travel, were required for military service, etc. How is it any different that an employer or university might ask for it now?

I don't know. The Supreme Court is ruling that it's not.

My worry is that resistance to getting this vaccine will result in resistance to other vaccines, too (like MMR, etc.). That we may be creating more "anti-vaxxers."

53 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Linking vaccinations, or masks, or restrictions on certain types of activity, etc. to political ideology or specific politicians only makes it less likely that we will get compliance, because people tend to huddle with their tribe. I don't know.....the whole thing has been handled unprofessionally, I guess, and we are all paying a price for it. 

We would ALL be better off if those who are unvaccinated (but have had opportunities to get vaccinated) had been vaccinated.

More of that, please.

[Double Mocha Man]

And a lot of health insurers are looking at not paying the full bill on Covid-19 hospital treatment anymore.  That can run $40,000 to $150,000 to the patient.  It would be nice if they could say they wouldn't cover the unvaccinated, but that is discriminatory so it applies to all.  However, since so many unvaccinated are ending up in the ICU (95%ish) it, effectively, is a stiff penalty for those unvaccinated.

And life insurance already charges double or triple premiums for smokers.  Now they are looking at the same kind of premiums for the unvaccinated.

It's getting harder and harder (and more expensive) not to be vaccinated.

[iacas]

Oh, Florida…

 

[StuM]

21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

 

I certainly understand the frustration. But this type of problem exists in medicine and has for a long time. The drunk driver who kills an innocent motorist in an MVA gets rushed to the trauma ward since he survived. The cocaine overdose is in the ICU too. I’m not sure this too different. Poor choices yet still receives treatment is nothing new.

Yes, this problem has and will always exist.  Following is my opinion with no facts to back it up:  I believe the hospitals were designed based on population in the vicinity and statistical frequency of need for various reasons including OD, DUI, Heart Attack, Broken Leg, Pneumonia, etc.-etc.-etc. to have sufficient beds to accommodate the anticipated needs.  That is why you see more and larger hospitals in areas with high population density and fewer/smaller in low population areas.  The issue is they were designed before COVID was known and thus without accounting for the number of beds needed for COVID on top of those other issues.  And I will hazard a guess that the number of hospitalizations/ICU/Ventilators due to COVID at areas with surges in cases far outnumber the normal occurrences of those other items mentioned.

[imsys0042]

4 minutes ago, StuM said:

Yes, this problem has and will always exist.  Following is my opinion with no facts to back it up:  I believe the hospitals were designed based on population in the vicinity and statistical frequency of need for various reasons including OD, DUI, Heart Attack, Broken Leg, Pneumonia, etc.-etc.-etc. to have sufficient beds to accommodate the anticipated needs.  That is why you see more and larger hospitals in areas with high population density and fewer/smaller in low population areas.  The issue is they were designed before COVID was known and thus without accounting for the number of beds needed for COVID on top of those other issues.  And I will hazard a guess that the number of hospitalizations/ICU/Ventilators due to COVID at areas with surges in cases far outnumber the normal occurrences of those other items mentioned.

I don't really know.   I know, from experience, that hospitals will a small number of patients cannot stay in business.  I imagine that hospitals that are usually very busy would expand or another company would open something in the area.   So general supply and demand.   Rural areas probably have longer distances for infrequent care.

Covid is overwhelming some areas, and unfortunately the unvaccinated cannot just be spun into their own area and not drain resources away from people who have life threatening issues that are non-Covid.  Simple example of my take on this is that when they did the first lockdowns in March of 2020 my wife and I stopped ordering anything non-essential online so that people who suddenly needed essentials weren't be held up by our stuff.   Small thing that a lot of people probably did.   The willful unvaccinated are 180 from that.   They don't care who is affected by their behavior and when they get hit, it hurts more than them.

I cannot even begin to imagine how pissed/tired/upset/etc... that people in hard hit areas are, who work in health care.  

[StuM]

1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And a lot of health insurers are looking at not paying the full bill on Covid-19 hospital treatment anymore.  That can run $40,000 to $150,000 to the patient.  It would be nice if they could say they wouldn't cover the unvaccinated, but that is discriminatory so it applies to all.  However, since so many unvaccinated are ending up in the ICU (95%ish) it, effectively, is a stiff penalty for those unvaccinated.

And life insurance already charges double or triple premiums for smokers.  Now they are looking at the same kind of premiums for the unvaccinated.

It's getting harder and harder (and more expensive) not to be vaccinated.

I do not think they should withhold treatment or coverage for treatment from either vaccinated or unvaccinated.  The should charge higher premiums for the unvaccinated to help offset the increase expense that group is causing.  That may be one reason an employer will mandate vaccination, to get better group pricing for the insurance.

2 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

I don't really know.   I know, from experience, that hospitals will a small number of patients cannot stay in business.  I imagine that hospitals that are usually very busy would expand or another company would open something in the area.   So general supply and demand.   Rural areas probably have longer distances for infrequent care.

That is very similar to what I am saying.  Hospitals will build the capacity for the need they see/expect in a given area.  The problem is COVID has added a demand that did not previously exist.

[imsys0042]

Florida doctors stage walkout to protest surge of unvaccinated...

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A group of South Florida doctors walked out of their hospital Palm Beach Internal Medicine to protest the surge in COVID-19 hospitalizations among the unvaccinated.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

 

Florida doctors stage walkout to protest surge of unvaccinated...

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A group of South Florida doctors walked out of their hospital Palm Beach Internal Medicine to protest the surge in COVID-19 hospitalizations among the unvaccinated.

 

I don't see Vinsk in there.  Maybe he's way off to the left... 😁

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I don't see Vinsk in there.  Maybe he's way off to the left... 😁

He’s in Orlando dealing with central Florida problems.

[Vinsk]

31 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

He’s in Orlando dealing with central Florida problems.

Yep. And the number of unvaccinated people coming in is shameful. 

[Double Mocha Man]

It was a shank joke.

[Shindig]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And a lot of health insurers are looking at not paying the full bill on Covid-19 hospital treatment anymore.  That can run $40,000 to $150,000 to the patient.  It would be nice if they could say they wouldn't cover the unvaccinated, but that is discriminatory so it applies to all. 

It's discriminatory, sure, but the question isn't "is this discriminatory?" but rather "is this illegal discrimination?"

There are plenty of forms of making distinctions that aren't illegal.  I wonder if electively unvaccinated (i.e., not vaccinated, but not due to existing immune system disorders, etc) would be legal to make that distinction upon.  I'll bet it isn't, for the simple reason that I'll bet Delta ran their plan past at least one good lawyer before making the decision. 

[imsys0042]

12 minutes ago, Shindig said:

It's discriminatory, sure, but the question isn't "is this discriminatory?" but rather "is this illegal discrimination?"

There are plenty of forms of making distinctions that aren't illegal.  I wonder if electively unvaccinated (i.e., not vaccinated, but not due to existing immune system disorders, etc) would be legal to make that distinction upon.  I'll bet it isn't, for the simple reason that I'll bet Delta ran their plan past at least one good lawyer before making the decision. 

I’d echo what someone else said earlier.   This is like charging smokers more, or a lot of plans charge non-smokers less.  There is a difference.   Prior people have done so well that we haven’t hit this.   Thanks to prior generations being receptive to saving their own lives, insurance companies don’t have to worry about covering smallpox and polio.

 

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And a lot of health insurers are looking at not paying the full bill on Covid-19 hospital treatment anymore.  That can run $40,000 to $150,000 to the patient.  It would be nice if they could say they wouldn't cover the unvaccinated, but that is discriminatory so it applies to all.  However, since so many unvaccinated are ending up in the ICU (95%ish) it, effectively, is a stiff penalty for those unvaccinated.

They better be obeying the benefits they are required to pay. I don't think they leave the patient to pay the rest if they have yearly maximums, or big reductions in payments for emergency room visits and hospital stays. 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

The Cost Of Being Unvaccinated Just Went Up — Most Insurers Are Passing Costs Back To Patients As Covid Hospitalizations Soar

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The majority of private health insurers are no longer waiving out-of-pocket costs for Covid-19 treatment and are passing these back to patients, according to research by KFF, and almost no provider...

 

[Zippo]

Something new?

 

“Inescapable” COVID-19 Antibody Discovery – Neutralizes All Known SARS-CoV-2 Strains – SciTechDaily

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Zippo