General COVID-19 Topic

[saevel25]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

As a consumer, I may prefer to patronize businesses that DO try to keep out the un-vaccinated, although I hope my concerns are eased as a greater percentage of people do get the shots.  It may become a requirement for anyone who chooses to travel internationally (like a golf trip to St Andrews), so I'm likely to sign up. I have a feeling that the urgency of the concerns will fade before any kind of national registry ever gets launched.

Yep, I would rather visit restaurants that kept their capacity under control. 

[Vinsk]

5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I still kinda like the Machiavellian concept of a vaccine "passport".  No shirt, no shoes, no vaccine passport, no service.  At restaurants, bars, stores, golf courses, ball games, etc.

‘Star Belly Sneeches’.

[NCGolfer]

11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

As I have read this, the discussion of having a centralized proof of vaccination database is in response to a number of businesses who might consider restricting access to vaccinated people.  As long as a person doesn't choose to patronize those businesses, there's no need to be on the registry.  As a consumer, I may prefer to patronize businesses that DO try to keep out the un-vaccinated, although I hope my concerns are eased as a greater percentage of people do get the shots.  It may become a requirement for anyone who chooses to travel internationally (like a golf trip to St Andrews), so I'm likely to sign up. I have a feeling that the urgency of the concerns will fade before any kind of national registry ever gets launched.

Businesses have a right to refuse service (unless against a protected class) as you say.  I don't think a centralized (government controlled/tracked) database is a super-awesome way to administer for reasons I stated.  I'd rather the business keep a mask requirement if they choose.  If we truly get down to low infection rates, then things should ease up...without government tracking.

The bolded point is where I'm skeptical.  The term "never let a good crisis go to waste" is echoing in the back of my mind.

12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Yep, I would rather visit restaurants that kept their capacity under control. 

A valid option.  The business would have to weigh the pros and cons of potentially serving less customers.  It could attract more people like yourself or could be a double negative to the bottom line.  Less customers/tables and people also turned off that they are restrictive...take their business elsewhere.

[ncates00]

1 hour ago, NCGolfer said:

I don't think a centralized (government controlled/tracked) database is a super-awesome way

And @DaveP043, there are some serious privacy concerns with this idea as well. While I certainly want others to be vaccinated (I got both of mine a while back), I don’t want government encroachment onto personal liberties either. The suggestion here breaches that notion, and I am not in favor of this in any way. 

[Frank F]

7 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I still kinda like the Machiavellian concept of a vaccine "passport".  No shirt, no shoes, no vaccine passport, no service.  At restaurants, bars, stores, golf courses, ball games, etc.

I believe that something similar was tried in the 40's in Germany. No thanks.

[ncates00]

Moreover, I don’t like the precedent that this would set for future government meddling either. 

Just now, Frank F said:

I believe that something similar was tried in the 40's in Germany. No thanks.

I agree. 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

‘Star Belly Sneeches’.

EXACTLY!

• Scarlet Letter
• Yellow Ticket-of-Leave
• Gold 6 pointed stars

It's a slippery slope. 

[StuM]

3 hours ago, NCGolfer said:

It's not about the choice of getting or not getting the vaccine.  I've gotten my first shot.

Much more about the implications of me being required to carry around a piece of paper or document...slippery slope as to what that piece of paper is going to have to have on it in the long run.  Trust your government to keep it simple?  Definitely should add flu vaccination status.  Should we also have them weigh us and put BMI on there since 80% of COVID hospitalizations are overweight and obese?  Maybe some other datapoints as we learn more about other diseases...blood type, vitamin d levels, diabetic, etc.

Get vaccinated.  Get to herd immunity.  No need to carry a damn card around.

I agree it is a slippery slope, which we are already going down.  ID required to check in a hotel, buy a drink, get on an airplane, etc.

Already some colleges are requiring proof to attend on campus classes.

I am on the fence about this given how many people are refusing the vaccine makes me consider it when I normally would be. Firm NO.

[Frank F]

1 minute ago, StuM said:

I agree it is a slippery slope, which we are already going down.  ID required to check in a hotel, buy a drink, get on an airplane, etc.

Already some colleges are requiring proof to attend on campus classes.

I am on the fence about this given how many people are refusing the vaccine makes me consider it when I normally would be. Firm NO.

What about those who have already had COVID and have the anti-bodies? An immunization is to make a person immune. Why would they be required to get a an immunization against COVID and then carry papers with them to prove it?

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, NCGolfer said:

Much more about the implications of me being required to carry around a piece of paper or document...

This is 2021.  If they do it properly it'll be right there on your phone.  You carry that around, right? 

I don't want to go to a Mariner's game with a lot of screaming/shouting fans sitting next to me who may not be vaccinated.  And I want to know that the cook who spit on my food is safe.

[Darkfrog]

I'm not necessarily pro-vaccine passport, but I don't buy into the idea that requiring a COVID-19 vaccination for certain activities is a slippery slope that will lead to some sort of dystopian/authoritarian future. I have to provide proof of vaccination for my kids to enroll in school, I don't see how that is any different than providing proof of vaccination for international travel (or other activities).

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, NCGolfer said:

Businesses have a right to refuse service (unless against a protected class) as you say. 

On this we agree, and as I said, For the near future I'll be more comfortable to go to a restaurant or get on an airplane or see a movie if I can feel certain that everyone there has been vaccinated.  Would it be reasonable for a movie chain to develop its own list of "safe people", for the airline industry to develop its own list, for a local association of restauranteurs to have another separate list?  And what do they each require from individuals, is there a standard for vaccination proof?  I know I have my card, but I don't know how official that is.  

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, I'm a bit on the fence myself, but I understand the concerns of businesses, and I can see that a unified central database might be a reasonable way to achieve the goals.   It there's a more effective way, I'd be interested to hear about it.

6 minutes ago, Frank F said:

What about those who have already had COVID and have the anti-bodies? An immunization is to make a person immune. Why would they be required to get a an immunization against COVID and then carry papers with them to prove it?

As I understand it, people have gotten COVID a second time.  Being vaccinated will increase their level of immunity.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

...that will lead to some sort of dystopian/authoritarian future.

Well, there is that chip in the vaccine we should worry about.

Oh hey, if there is a chip they just scan you before entering a restaurant... now we're talkin'.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, Frank F said:

I believe that something similar was tried in the 40's in Germany. No thanks.

Perfect equivalent. 

[Vinsk]

44 minutes ago, Frank F said:

What about those who have already had COVID and have the anti-bodies? An immunization is to make a person immune. Why would they be required to get a an immunization against COVID and then carry papers with them to prove it?

Everybody has different immune responses to the virus. Generally those who got quite ill will have generated a stronger response and thus have antibodies that are more likely quite durable to the novel virus. However some only have a minor illness or asymptomatic thus their immune systems don’t generate ‘reliable’ antibodies. Their antibodies may only be present for a couple of weeks. If we went by antibody testing we couldn’t determine how effective the antibodies are.

The vaccines are biochemically engineered to give people the proper ‘dose’ of virus protein to ensure effective antibodies are generated.

[saevel25]

58 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

The vaccines are biochemically engineered to give people the proper ‘dose’ of virus protein to ensure effective antibodies are generated.

I think that some studies have shown that the body produced more antibodies than those who you ended up going to the hospital for COVID. I thought I read this.

[Billy Z]

Not good news for michigan:

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/health/2021/03/25/michigan-covid-19-case-rate-second-worst-in-nation/6986599002/

Michigan now has the third highest COVID-19 case rate per capita in the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Wednesday — the same day state health officials announced 4,454 new coronavirus cases, the biggest daily total this year. 

[Double Mocha Man]

There has been so much pressure to open things up.  Most Governors are caving.  As individuals, we don't have to cave.  Our state opened the restaurants 2 weeks ago.  I still won't sit inside... outside is chilly but works.