Jump to content
IGNORED

Difficult Pin Placements at Public Courses


RetiredOldMan
Note: This thread is 1330 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Should Public Golf Courses place the flag pins in difficult parts of the green when amateurs are playing the course?

This last weekend, I played for the 3rd time, a particular course. It is an excellent course and well kept and I enjoy playing there. It is an hour away from me.

My usual course received heavy rains and was cart path only. 

There are two holes on this course that are not too difficult except for the pin placement. 

The 1st one is a par 5, fairly long but make-able in 3 with a narrow approach through the center of the fairway between two sand traps. 

The problem lies with the placement of the flag pin. It is over to the left of the green, about 6' from the edge, on a slope that is so steep if you miss the putt, it will roll off of the green.  The first time I played it was after a tournament and I scored a 12. Being on the green and tried to putt within 3' of the hole on my long putt, only to have it roll off the green. 

About a year later, the pin was in the same spot again and I scored an 8 after being on the green in three. (5 putts before getting it in the hole)

Yesterday, July 4, 2020, I scored a 7 after being on in three. My putt was up hill, and stopped short and stopped, then started rolling down and off the green. (BTY, I shot a 45 for the front nine) 

Then the number 9 hole is very similar but is a par 4, but again, the pin placement is most difficult, and rolls off the green if the putt is missed. 

This is my third time to play this course and probably my last. 

So what is are your thoughts on this? 

Should Public courses have difficult holes that Professionals would be challenged to play? 

 

Retired Old Man

 

Callaway Rogue Driver, 12.5 loft, regular shaft, draw

Pure Spin 60* Loft Wedge, Stiff Shaft

Pure Spin "A" Wedge, Regular Flex

Irons are G-15 Pings, 5 iron - Pitching Wedge

Callaway Rogue 5 Wood, regular flex                        Callaway Rogue 3 Wood, regular flex

Callaway Cobra Hybrid #3 & #5

Mallet Style Putter 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Variety is the spice of life, but if my local course made it a habit, I might be inclined to go somewhere else most of the time.

My new home course is a pretty easy, open sort of course and the undulating greens are the one real defense it has. There are a couple of positions that they use where you're dead meat if you don't keep your approach shot below the hole.

Normally, they'll mix it up. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

These holes aren't fun to play, but an easy pin location doesn't challenge you either.  At the end of the day, a few difficult and few easy pins is ideal for a public course.  I do understand where you are coming from though, when hole can't be two or at worst three putted with ease.  I guess if those holes are the toughest holes on a course though, it kinda makes sense.  Also, those positions are the same for everybody

What's in the bag

  • Taylor Made r5 dual Draw 9.5* (stiff)
  • Cobra Baffler 4H (stiff)
  • Taylor Made RAC OS 6-9,P,S (regular)
  • Golden Bear LD5.0 60* (regular)
  • Aidia Z-009 Putter
  • Inesis Soft 500 golf ball
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I think it is perfectly acceptable to not be able to stop the ball near the hole. However, I do think there's a reasonable expectation that the ball will at least stay on the green. 

It's a bit silly when you not only cannot stop the ball near the hole, but if you try to the ball won't even stop on the green. 

I used to play a course in which their was a hole that when the pin position was in the front of the green you literally couldn't stop (or even place) your ball within 6 feet of the cup. You would have to hit your ball to the top shelf which was at least 6 feet past the hole. Then putt the ball down the hill. If you missed the hole, the ball would roll off the green and roll all the way down a hill leaving you about a 30 yard up hill pitch shot back up to the green. Then you'd repeat this process over and over again until you either made the 7 foot or longer downhill putt. Or got sick of the deal and picked up and moved on. The worst part was it was on a reachable par 5, so the course used to back up and come to a grinding halt at that tee box. It was stupid in my opinion. 

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

My experience with these situations is that it has less to do with pin placements and more to do with the course using modern green speeds for a course that was built for lower speeds. This was certainly the case of a course I used to play in NJ. The course was built in the 70's on the side of a mountain. A few years ago that ramped up the greens to the point that several were unplayable. It got to the point where I stopped playing it. While I think this is more likely to happen with public courses versus private, I've seen it at a private club as well. Also, if the course is a municipal, you are more likely to less knowledgeable staff who will occasionally put pins in bad places.

To answer your question, if the green speeds are right, the pins should be matched by the difficulty of the course. If it's a tough course, then there's bound to be a few tough pins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


That’s just unfair. Just like @ChetlovesMer, I believe you should have a fighting chance to keep your ball on the green if you miss the putt. I read about something similar to this in John Feinstein’s book Open.

For those of you who may not have read the book, there was one particular pin position in a local qualifier where it was virtually impossible to hit a close approach shot, and if you missed the putt, it would come right back to your feet. There was only one par there all day, and a lot of doubles and triples and worse. That one hole caused so much of a delay that they ran out of daylight.

Point is, challenging pin positions are great, just as long as you don’t make it borderline unfair. That’s what your situation is. If you don’t have at least a chance to keep a putt on the green, it’s unfair.

Edited by dagolfer18
  • Like 1

WITB:
Woods: Cleveland Launcher (Driver, 17 degree, 22 degree)
Irons: Titleist T200 (4-PW)
Wedges: Callaway Jaws (50/54/60)
Putter: Odyssey White Hot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The USGA states in their guide to setting up a tournament course:

"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade.  In no case should holes be located in tricky places or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed.  A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."

Of course, this guide is for tournaments but it seems reasonable to expect day-to-day play to generally meet these parameters.  Unfortunately, courses don't always practice what the USGA preaches.

Some older greens have slopes that approach unplayable condition when the green speeds are increased to modern standards.  Unfortunately, no course wants to tell everyone, "Our greens are rolling at a 6 on the Stimp Meter!!"

When I play, I expect some hole locations to be very challenging and some less. A two putt should never be automatic on every green.  I am not, however, a masochist.  If a course insists on setting the hole locations in extreme positions or brings the green's speed beyond what the design can accommodate, I am with you, vote with your feet and find another place to play.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thumbs Up 1

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Heather Highlands near Holly has a green that is completely unfair.  Number 6 is sloped down hill back to front.  The pin placement is usually in the center of a very large green (33 yard circle).    The slope is steep enough if you are a few feet short of the pin, you have about a 16 yard putt because it will roll all of the way back to the lower fringe.  If you are above the hole, it's almost assured to be at least a 3 putt.  

I vote with my wallet.   I won't play there anymore.

  • Upvote 1

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I agree with retired. Public golf courses should have reasonable pin placement. If it’s a TPC or the likes I get it but for a course I can just walk in and play it shouldn’t be like a Sunday at a major. I’m not saying it should be smack in the middle of all the greens but someplace on the green that’s playable for the most part. If i have to drop to my knees and pray it doesn’t roll off the front of the green after i hit it 1 ft past the hole its diabolical. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • 5 weeks later...

Yes I don't like when courses trying making the greens so fast and pin placements hard to stop a ball close as a way to increase the courses slope rating ... even my local is rolling the greens hard n fast and am seeing some very hard pin placements where downhill putts actually increase in speed close to the hole ...just stupid IMHO ... there should be an advantage if you get the ball to land within 2-3 feet of the hole

Go Foxy Go

Link to comment
Share on other sites


If the golfer is not a competent putter, all greens are going to be tough for them.

Beginner golfers should use tough pin placements to get better at their approach shots, and their putting skills. 

Me, I like tough greens. I like the challenge they offer me.

I played a course in Eastern Oregon a few weeks ago. The greens were a bit challenging. So much so, there were signs posted on each that read. " 4 Putts Maximum. Pick Up, And Move To The Tee". I thought that solved a lot of problems. 

  • Upvote 1

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

17 minutes ago, Patch said:

If the golfer is not a competent putter, all greens are going to be tough for them.

Beginner golfers should use tough pin placements to get better at their approach shots, and their putting skills. 

Me, I like tough greens. I like the challenge they offer me.

I played a course in Eastern Oregon a few weeks ago. The greens were a bit challenging. So much so, there were signs posted on each that read. " 4 Putts Maximum. Pick Up, And Move To The Tee". I thought that solved a lot of problems. 

It’s not about not being competent putter. Some people can putt well enough and still have problems with pin placements that should be reserved for pros. You should be able to go 1-2ft past the hole without the fear of needing 3 more putts to get in the hole. Difficulty pin placement for a newer player takes the little bit of fun out of it for them. You want people to say that was fun I want to do this again. You don’t want them thinking this is impossible I’ll never come back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


37 minutes ago, Patch said:

Beginner golfers should use tough pin placements to get better at their approach shots, and their putting skills. 

How would a tough pin placement help a beginner get better at their approach shots? They (and pretty much all) amateur golfers should be aiming at the center of the green when outside 75-100 yds anyway so I don't see how a tough pin placement would provide a beginner golfer the opportunity to get better at their approach shots

Driver: :callaway: Rogue Max ST LS
Woods:  :cobra: Darkspeed LS 3Wood/3Hybrid
Irons: :tmade: P770 (4-PW)
Wedges: :callaway: MD3 50   MD5 54 58 degree  
Putter: :odyssey:  White Hot RX #1
Ball: :srixon: Z Star XV

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

44 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

It’s not about not being competent putter. Some people can putt well enough and still have problems with pin placements that should be reserved for pros

Do you mean pp for pros regarding approach shots? Because honestly...there are probably many amateurs out there who putt as good as pros. It’s really not a highly difficult skill to become very good at. 

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Mostly in regard to approach shots. A pin 8 feet from the edge is not for most amateurs. Or as retired stated in his original post placement when you go a bit past the hole and it rolls off the green. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


5 minutes ago, mclaren4life said:

Mostly in regard to approach shots. A pin 8 feet from the edge is not for most amateurs. Or as retired stated in his original post placement when you go a bit past the hole and it rolls off the green. 

Why? Just play your shot to the middle of the green and putt from there. Why are we aiming at pins when we all suck?

  • Thumbs Up 1

Colin P.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Jeffery Cornish designed my course. He seemed to like greens that tilt back to front. This time of year in New England we are getting hot for us. The greens keeper has a fine line to walk as he cuts the greens, too short and they are lighting fast and susceptible to heat stress. To long and the players complain about slow greens. We don't have many middle pins now, either front or back, more in the back so you can stay below the hole. I'm not sure he puts much thought into degree of difficulty, just wear and tear on the greens. The pro usually sets the tee boxes in the morning. M,W & F there are a lot of seniors playing and the weekend has the younger members. For the most part the tee's reflect that mix. A bit easier during the week, back a bit on weekends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • billchao changed the title to Difficult Pin Placements at Public Courses
Note: This thread is 1330 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...