Cleveland Guardians

[Billy Z]

  On 7/24/2021 at 10:14 PM, Shorty said:

Once again you willingly inform us of your abject ignorance.  It isn't about what you do or don't care about. .

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Ah, so let's resort to name-calling. I won't lower myself to that. This is how I feel, that we as a country have become too soft and oversensitive. I mean the name Indians is offensive? lol. Like I said, if they wish to name and after my ethnicity that would be just fine, I would feel honored.

[Double Mocha Man]

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:32 PM, Billy Z said:

Like I said, if they wish to name and after my ethnicity that would be just fine, I would feel honored.

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... and what would that team name be?

[Billy Z]

rotf, here we go again, has we cannot please our over-sensitive society.

The racist Cleveland Guardians baseball team must be renamed - The Spectator World

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Major League Baseball has failed another major test. The new name for the professional...

 

The new name for the professional baseball franchise in Cleveland — Guardians — must go. As several states work to remove imperialistic statues of cis white men, the city of Cleveland has reached into its racist past to honor them. This is not the progress that Nikole Hannah-Jones has been dreaming of.

And while we are at it, the logo for the Minnesota Vikings must go! Here is the definition of a Viking, in which the Scandinavian the people must be fuming about:

Who were the Vikings?

The Vikings were raiders, pirates, traders, explorers, and colonizers during the 9th to 11th century. They often traveled by sea from Scandinavia and took control of areas of Europe and beyond.

[Double Mocha Man]

Did Cleveland ownership not vet those chunks of concrete?!

[Shorty]

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:32 PM, Billy Z said:

Ah, so let's resort to name-calling. I won't lower myself to that. This is how I feel, that we as a country have become too soft and oversensitive. I mean the name Indians is offensive? lol. Like I said, if they wish to name and after my ethnicity that would be just fine, I would feel honored.

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You really can't help yourself, can you?  It isn't about what YOU find offensive. You don't get to tell others how they should feel. It's about the implications and stereotypes of these names. How about calling teams "The Slaveowners" or "Confederate Losers " or "Cottonpickin' Shoeshine Boys". Would that be cool with you? I suppose so.

YES - the term "Indian " IS offensive. You have to be told this? My God. It is not the same as "Native American", "American Indian", First Nations" person, "Aboriginal"  or "Indigenous" person. "  I'll bet you scoff at those terms. 

We get that you aren't offended. That has nothing to do with the issue. I'll bet that you can even claim to know no one at all who is offended or supportive of the name change. All it does is confirm that you live in a bit of a bubble and don't actually understand the issue. This is WHY these changes are taking place. Like removing certain statues and renaming schools which were built or named in honour of some of the worst people in your great nation's history. 

When you say "we as a country have become oversensitive" you mean you don't like change that symbolises positive and modern reflection on historical wrongs. You are the very definition of a person who is part of the problem. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Shorty

[iacas]

  On 7/24/2021 at 9:35 PM, Billy Z said:

I'm on the side of keeping it has the Indians, I never thought negatively about somebody of Indian Heritage because of that name.

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Ummmm, it's not about YOU.

  On 7/24/2021 at 9:35 PM, Billy Z said:

People are just so oversensitive now, and for all I care they could call it the Cleveland Whiteskins.

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🤦‍♂️

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:32 PM, Billy Z said:

I mean the name Indians is offensive? lol.

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Yes, it is. This is a fact.

With Guardians, Cleveland Steps Away From an Offensive Name - The New York Times

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After years of pressure, and amid a growing trend away from names that reference Indigenous people, the team will drop its “Indians” mascot, which it used for more than 100 years.

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:57 PM, Billy Z said:

rotf, here we go again, has we cannot please our over-sensitive society.

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And you wonder why you've been warned for trolling a few times?

[Piz]

Why not Cleveland Indigens?  It worked for Montreal.

[boogielicious]

  On 7/24/2021 at 9:35 PM, Billy Z said:

I'm on the side of keeping it has the Indians, I never thought negatively about somebody of Indian Heritage because of that name. People are just so oversensitive now, and for all I care they could call it the Cleveland Whiteskins. I think intention has everything to do with it, and I don't think anybody intended it to be demeaning. To me, the Guardians sounds sort of silly, especially in an area where they can't contain their crime rate, I just wonder what they are guarding.

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You realize that native Americans were called ‘Indians’ because idiot European explorers like Columbus thought they were in India, right? They were 12,000 miles off. And the stupid name stuck. They never called themselves Indians. They were Wampanoag, Massasoit, Erie, Mohican, Lakota, Apache, etc. They were individual cultures with their own languages. Calling them Indian is equivalent to calling white people rednecks or honkeys. 

[ncates00]

@Shorty, @boogielicious, and @iacas thank you for adding well-reasoned and factual statements to counter @Billy Z’s nonsense.
 

While I tend to agree to a limited extent that people can be overly sensitive these days, “Indian” and the equivalent (“red skins” and the like) are, as all of you pointed out, offensive—and not just a nitpicky level of sensitivity—but offensive to all reasonable people, given historical context and usage. Therefore, I think the ball club made the right decision. However, I’m not a fan of “guardians,” but I’m happy to see the change. 

[jamo]

I was pretty lukewarm on "Guardians" originally, but it has already grown on me. I like the logo of the G with wings over the baseball quite a bit. 

[David in FL]

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:57 PM, Billy Z said:

rotf, here we go again, has we cannot please our over-sensitive society.

The racist Cleveland Guardians baseball team must be renamed - The Spectator World

---

Major League Baseball has failed another major test. The new name for the professional...

 

The new name for the professional baseball franchise in Cleveland — Guardians — must go. As several states work to remove imperialistic statues of cis white men, the city of Cleveland has reached into its racist past to honor them. This is not the progress that Nikole Hannah-Jones has been dreaming of.

And while we are at it, the logo for the Minnesota Vikings must go! Here is the definition of a Viking, in which the Scandinavian the people must be fuming about:

Who were the Vikings?

The Vikings were raiders, pirates, traders, explorers, and colonizers during the 9th to 11th century. They often traveled by sea from Scandinavia and took control of areas of Europe and beyond.

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Yep.

 

Yep.

People are too easily butt hurt these days, and others are too ready to appease the silliness.

I have two very close friends who are 100% Native American. One a Navajo whose grandfather was a code talker in World War II, and the other a Cherokee.

Both lose their mind over stuff like this.

According to both, it does nothing but pay lip service and gives people the impression that they’re actually doing something to help Native Americans, when in fact, they ignore the genuine problems facing Native Americans these days.

But I’m the ignorant one.  
😑

 

 

[boogielicious]

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:03 AM, David in FL said:

Yep.

 

Yep.

People are too easily butt hurt these days, and others are too ready to appease the silliness.

I have two very close friends who are 100% Native American. One a Navajo whose grandfather was a code talker in World War II, and the other a Cherokee.

Both lose their mind over stuff like this.

According to both, it does nothing but pay lip service and gives people the impression that they’re actually doing something to help Native Americans, when in fact, they ignore the genuine problems facing Native Americans these days.

But I’m the ignorant one.  
😑

 

 

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Yup you are. I have friends that are native Americans too. They applaud this. It’s one small step , but it will help. Ignorance of the the past is a failure that you seem to embrace.

[saevel25]

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:11 AM, boogielicious said:

Yup you are. I have friends that are native Americans too. They applaud this. It’s one small step , but it will help. Ignorance of the the past is a failure that you seem to embrace.

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Yep, when people get comfortable they just want to go around ignorant of the world around them. Its easier that way. Our brain is super good at compartmentalizing things in a way. One big way has been the plain failure to see the people around us who are suffering because of institutional problems.

[Hardspoon]

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:03 AM, David in FL said:

But I’m the ignorant one.

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Nah, you’re the over-sensitive one.

A professional team changed its name to have a broader, more universal appeal. Cool. It’s their decision to make.

People like you get butt-hurt about it and think it’s some culture war or something. Stop being so sensitive. 

[mcanadiens]

  On 7/24/2021 at 11:23 AM, dennyjones said:

Much better than Washington Football Team!

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I realize that this is only tangentially on topic, but I love WFT. The numbers on the helmets instead of some dumb logo. No contrived team nickname that someone hasn't already taken. I think Guardians is a pretty dorky name, but what else is left.

Hail to the Football Team. Hail victory. Hail to the Football Team fight for old DC.

🙂

[iacas]

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:03 AM, David in FL said:

Yep.

People are too easily butt hurt these days, and others are too ready to appease the silliness.

But I’m the ignorant one.  
😑data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

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As others have said, you're the:

• butthurt one
• the sensitive one
• the ignorant one

All appear to correctly describe you on this. Congrats on the trifecta.

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:03 AM, David in FL said:

I have two very close friends who are 100% Native American. One a Navajo whose grandfather was a code talker in World War II, and the other a Cherokee.

Both lose their mind over stuff like this.
data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

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Oh, I didn't know they were the last two descendants of indigenous people whose opinions mattered.

It's a fact that names like these are negative. Not everyone has to find them negative for that overall fact to be true.

  On 7/26/2021 at 1:03 AM, David in FL said:

According to both, it does nothing but pay lip service and gives people the impression that they’re actually doing something to help Native Americans, when in fact, they ignore the genuine problems facing Native Americans these days.
data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

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In fact, by renaming the team, they have done something to "help."

[Zippo]

I've said things and made jokes about things back when I was young and even more ignorant than I am now. But, times have changed and I'm glad that I was able to change with them. The name change is just fine with me. Eventually, few will remember a time before the name was changed and I think that's a good thing.

[David in FL]

  On 7/26/2021 at 2:05 AM, iacas said:

As others have said, you're the:

• butthurt one
• the sensitive one
• the ignorant one

All appear to correctly describe you on this. Congrats on the trifecta.

Oh, I didn't know they were the last two descendants of indigenous people whose opinions mattered.

It's a fact that names like these are negative. Not everyone has to find them negative for that overall fact to be true.

In fact, by renaming the team, they have done something to "help."

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My only comment was “silliness”.

No worries.  I’ll let my buddies know that you disagree with them though and have their best interests in mind.  I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.  😂