Club Champion Recommendation or Go My Own Way?

[boogielicious]

After reading all these comments, I’m glad I never went to CC. My fittings were done back in 2009 with a fitter in Manchester NH. He did a thorough job and never tried to push me into anything. We did driver, irons and putter in three different fittings. I’ve not done a fitting since because I am capable of trying things out for myself. I picked up a few 6 irons with different heads and just experimented with different shafts until I got the feel and flight I liked. Same with driver.

My issue with a one time fitting has been address by a few folks above.

[reidsou]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:04 PM, iacas said:

It’s not all marketing. He hits his normal driver much farther.

He might not need CC to tell him a normal driver is better than an upside down left-handed driver. 

Point I was trying to make is that technique is vastly more important than fitting. (And I've had fitters alter my technique during the "fitting".) 

[Typhoon92]

11 hours ago, boogielicious said:

After reading all these comments, I’m glad I never went to CC. My fittings were done back in 2009 with a fitter in Manchester NH. He did a thorough job and never tried to push me into anything. We did driver, irons and putter in three different fittings. I’ve not done a fitting since because I am capable of trying things out for myself. I picked up a few 6 irons with different heads and just experimented with different shafts until I got the feel and flight I liked. Same with driver.

My issue with a one time fitting has been address by a few folks above.

The guy in Manchester, was his name Ken Collins or something like that?  I e heads a ton of good things about him.  Does he do it indoors only?  Frank Viola from Ace Of Clubs in Saugus MA is a friend of mine who fit me for my driver back in 2016.  He does a great job.  Eventually when I get another set of irons I’ll be going to see one of those 2 guys first.

[onthehunt526]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:12 PM, iacas said:

That's not that high.

Let's say you want a set of Titleist irons and Vokey wedges, all somewhat stock:

• Driver: $549
• 3W: $299
• Two Hybrids: $558
• 4-PW: $1299
• Three Wedges: $477

Total: $3,182. (Yeah, that's 14 clubs without a putter.)

My Srixon/Cleveland’s were $3200 ish. My Exotics when I had the blades were $2500. $4k is not that out of bounds anymore for a full bag. (With putter).

Club Champion sometimes recommends out-of-bounds shafts you have never heard of. Because they don’t make a dime on the club, they have to buy the entire club stock. Unless you specifically state you want the stock shaft and grip, (since you’re paying for the stock shaft and grip) Club Champion just keeps them and sells them. 
 

I’ve had my fittings done locally, from a Mom and Pop and he only recommended one out-of-bounds shaft, and that was for my Driver at the time. (It was an Oban shaft I think) But I ended up with the good old Black Tie in X-Flex (those were some good shafts, wish I could find one for my Srixon)

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, Typhoon92 said:

The guy in Manchester, was his name Ken Collins or something like that?  I e heads a ton of good things about him.  Does he do it indoors only?  Frank Viola from Ace Of Clubs in Saugus MA is a friend of mine who fit me for my driver back in 2016.  He does a great job.  Eventually when I get another set of irons I’ll be going to see one of those 2 guys first.

Yes, Ken Collins. Ken has a fitting studio and I think everything is indoors still. I’ve heard great things about Frank too. 

[Shindig]

10 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

My Srixon/Cleveland’s were $3200 ish. My Exotics when I had the blades were $2500. $4k is not that out of bounds anymore for a full bag. (With putter).

Club Champion sometimes recommends out-of-bounds shafts you have never heard of. Because they don’t make a dime on the club, they have to buy the entire club stock. Unless you specifically state you want the stock shaft and grip, (since you’re paying for the stock shaft and grip) Club Champion just keeps them and sells them. 

Looking back, when I was "fit for clubs" at Max Out Golf, the suggested purchase set was a little over $2000, and I already owned the irons I was going to keep (naturally, they suggested re-shafting, at something like $65 + labor each) and I had a 3W (their suggestion included a new shaft for that).  And I think the only reason they stuck with those heads is they probably knew I wouldn't be getting a full new set of irons.

[Darkfrog]

I've been fitted by my instructor for irons, wedges, and a putter so far totaling around $2000. During the fittings I asked for stock options for shafts because I don't think I am at a skill level where exotic shafts are going to have a profound impact on my game. I also got a 10% discount for purchasing clubs from the facility where I take lessons. The fitted clubs purchased through the facility ended up being cheaper than if I had purchased them myself from a retailer or the manufacturer.

I still plan to get fitted for driver, fairway wood, and hybrid, and I expect this will cost roughly another $1200, so I would say $3000-3500 for a full bag is not out of the norm. Of course, there is always the option to save money by purchasing older models that are still on the market, or going with lower cost model/brand, etc.

The fittings themselves were free (to an extent) because I did them with my instructor during a lesson. I suppose the fitting cut into instruction time, so perhaps that is a bit of cost, but the fitting and instruction were integrated nicely enough that I didn't feel like I was sacrificing anything.

[Adam C]

2 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I've been fitted by my instructor for irons, wedges, and a putter so far totaling around $2000. During the fittings I asked for stock options for shafts because I don't think I am at a skill level where exotic shafts are going to have a profound impact on my game. 

I see this said all the time about how someone isn't good enough for exotic shafts. The point with all this is you don't need exotic shafts regardless of skill level. Go look how many tour pros are playing iron shafts that are stock option models. Most are playing Dynamic Gold (stock option). Admittedly it's the Tour Issue version, but that is purely a weight sorting designation. The rest are spread between Project X, Nippon Modus3, and KBS Tour or Taper shafts. Not one of these fall into the category of exotic and these are the very best players in the world.

[Darkfrog]

24 minutes ago, Adam C said:

I see this said all the time about how someone isn't good enough for exotic shafts. The point with all this is you don't need exotic shafts regardless of skill level. Go look how many tour pros are playing iron shafts that are stock option models. Most are playing Dynamic Gold (stock option). Admittedly it's the Tour Issue version, but that is purely a weight sorting designation. The rest are spread between Project X, Nippon Modus3, and KBS Tour or Taper shafts. Not one of these fall into the category of exotic and these are the very best players in the world.

I totally agree. I guess what I was getting at is is that maybe at an elite level of golf, where the difference between players is so tiny, an incremental improvement in some ball flight parameter may be worth an upgrade. Of course, this would apply to very few golfers, and I assume at that level, many of those players are not paying for their $500 driver shafts.

[Adam C]

17 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I totally agree. I guess what I was getting at is is that maybe at an elite level of golf, where the difference between players is so tiny, an incremental improvement in some ball flight parameter may be worth an upgrade. Of course, this would apply to very few golfers, and I assume at that level, many of those players are not paying for their $500 driver shafts.

Check out what the best drivers on tour are using. In most cases they are still using a shaft that is many years old. Rahm, McIlroy, DJ, Brooks. Yes, they might dabble in something different but they almost always go back to the original.

[cruzhepug]

I've got a full bag fitting scheduled for this Saturday, so I'll be curious what the specs will be. I'll be focused on driver and irons.

[cruzhepug]

18 minutes ago, cruzhepug said:

I've got a full bag fitting scheduled for this Saturday, so I'll be curious what the specs will be. I'll be focused on driver and irons.

Just to clarify, I have a fitting at Club Champion this weekend. I've been fitted for my last several sets of irons so I know what my lie/loft/length specs are. I'm just curious if they come up with something that is truly better than what I'm playing. If I can gain 20+ yards with a $3-400 shaft upgrade, maybe it's worth it. Irons, my set I have now I decided to try graphite shafts, not 100% sure I'm sold on them and they seem a bit inconsistent, so maybe just a shaft swap in my irons. I really don't mind paying for something if it's a true improvement. After reading this thread I'm really curious if will be a sell job or will they just offer a shaft swap in my current clubs if that's all I need. We'll see.....

[Shindig]

41 minutes ago, cruzhepug said:

After reading this thread I'm really curious if will be a sell job or will they just offer a shaft swap in my current clubs if that's all I need. We'll see.....

We're curious, too, and are looking forward to hearing about your experience if you want to share afterward.

[Adam C]

13 hours ago, cruzhepug said:

Just to clarify, I have a fitting at Club Champion this weekend. I've been fitted for my last several sets of irons so I know what my lie/loft/length specs are. I'm just curious if they come up with something that is truly better than what I'm playing. If I can gain 20+ yards with a $3-400 shaft upgrade, maybe it's worth it. Irons, my set I have now I decided to try graphite shafts, not 100% sure I'm sold on them and they seem a bit inconsistent, so maybe just a shaft swap in my irons. I really don't mind paying for something if it's a true improvement. After reading this thread I'm really curious if will be a sell job or will they just offer a shaft swap in my current clubs if that's all I need. We'll see.....

Please share your build sheet with us once you get it.

[cruzhepug]

On 8/11/2021 at 7:12 PM, Shindig said:

We're curious, too, and are looking forward to hearing about your experience if you want to share afterward.

Well, had my fitting session yesterday. I'll start with I did accomplish my goals for the day and that was to find out if there was a different head/shaft combo (driver & irons) that gave me any better performance than what I'm currently playing.

First, my fitter. Nice guy but almost seemed a bit rude when I tried to give some input on my equipment and things I have used in the past, really didn't want to hear it. Maybe he didn't want anything to cloud his selection of parts, not sure, but overall very helpful.

Irons - I hit my 6 iron to get a base line number, had a couple of slight mis hits, but a good base. Average was 1 yard from my yardage sheet. All my numbers were really good across the board and he said he wasn't sure and it might be tough to find something better. Tried a Callaway Apex head with several different shaft combos, same weight, some a little heavier, did not find anything that was better. The best combo I tried was the same at best. So, absolutely no changes needed to my irons. Current irons are PXG 0211 with Accura i80 gram stiff shafts. This set is my first set with graphite shafts so my end goal was to see if I had made the right choice, looks like I did.

Driver - basically the same thing. Hit a few with mine, had really good numbers again. Tried several head shaft combos and found a Callaway Epic Flash Max with Motore F3 5R had slightly better results, and when I say slightly, average was 1 yard better. Now I did have a couple that were 8-10 yards longer, but still I don't think that's enough for a change, especially at about 1k for the club. I did try that shaft on my head and got about the same results but it felt really good and again, I had a couple that jumped out a few years farther. So, really no changed needed with driver. Current setup is Callaway Mavrik Max, Rogue 130msi stiff shaft, set -1/D. I may buy just the shaft and play around with it to see if I can get some better results with more time. They quoted $340 + adapter for the shaft. I found one new on ebay for $275 with adapter free shipping. Yes, it won't be pured, but I really don't think as close as my numbers were that would make much of a difference.

Putter - again, same thing. He setup the SAM and I hit 7 putts. Rolled all 7 in and when we looked at the data all 7 strokes were almost identical. If anything it showed I could add about 1/2 degree of loft but he said that really wouldn't make a difference, that you had to move about 2 degrees to really see a change. Really wasn't planning on any putter changes, just wanted to go through the process just to see the numbers.

Overall, I found out that that there was not anything that performed better for me than my current bag setup, so that was good. Also checked my FlightScope Mevo numbers against the Trackman and they were all real close, so I feel good about my little monitor and the numbers I get from that. Those were my goals for the day, was it worth the $300 and 3 hours, for my YES!!.

[iacas]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:11 PM, Big C said:

As a small business owner yourself, I find this to be an odd reply. 

You shouldn't. They're a business. They're not in it for altruism, they're in it to make money.

And as long as there are enough people who will pay and buy what they recommend… They're a business.

On 8/9/2021 at 12:11 PM, Big C said:

A good business should be able to provide a quality product, generate a profit for themselves, while also looking out for the best interests of their customers.

Your mistake seems to be thinking that businesses are going to be altruistic.

On 8/9/2021 at 12:11 PM, Big C said:

Club Champion seems to be taking advantage of their customers and your reply implies that it's to be expected because "they're a business"? The truth is, that businesses that consistently operate in this manner will tarnish their own reputation and give the rest of the industry a bad name.

Are they?

I think you're over-estimating the number of customers who don't buy and who feel like they were "taken advantage of."

Are lawyers who charge $400/hour "taking advantage" of people by charging that much, or is it just charging what the market will bear?

They're a business.

And, presently, a successful one from what any of us can tell.

[StuM]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

On 8/9/2021 at 12:11 PM, Big C said:

A good business should be able to provide a quality product, generate a profit for themselves, while also looking out for the best interests of their customers.

Your mistake seems to be thinking that businesses are going to be altruistic.

I'm siding with @Big Cin that I do believe businesses can be altruistic & make a profit at the same time.  I personally have told prospective clients "NO" and sent them away because I did not feel my services were in their best interest at that time.  And guess what, they come back (Sometimes years later) and become clients when they are in a position to benefit from my services or they refer others to me because they sense honesty.

On 8/15/2021 at 6:54 AM, cruzhepug said:

Overall, I found out that that there was not anything that performed better for me than my current bag setup, so that was good. Also checked my FlightScope Mevo numbers against the Trackman and they were all real close, so I feel good about my little monitor and the numbers I get from that. Those were my goals for the day, was it worth the $300 and 3 hours, for my YES!!.

@cruzhepugbasically indicates that his fitter from CC appears to have been honest and did not push a product just to make a sale.  He did get paid for his time doing the fitting, just not the extra he would have made by selling new clubs/shafts.  Businesses can be altruistic and profitable at the same time.   

[iacas]

1 hour ago, StuM said:

I'm siding with @Big Cin that I do believe businesses can be altruistic & make a profit at the same time.

It's not a "side" you can take. And I didn't say they couldn't. But "being altruistic" is often opposed to the core business idea of "make as much money as possible."

1 hour ago, StuM said:

I personally have told prospective clients "NO" and sent them away because I did not feel my services were in their best interest at that time.

Cool. So have I. That's beside the point.

The CC customers still have a choice. They know what they're getting — and they're told the price. They aren't held at gunpoint and forced to buy, and you can call back a week later and place the same order, or modify it, etc.

Furthermore, CC won't push you into expensive shafts if you tell them you don't want them, because they'll still want to make A sale instead of NO sale. It's still up to the consumer to choose whether they get enough benefit for the price.