2023 U.S. Open (Los Angeles Country Club)

[Vinsk]

It’ll be an even better tournament if Douche Koepka tanks….gotta say I’m not liking the good chance he’ll be up there.

[mdl]

In case haven't looked at the side bar when you click through to the above. This is WAY better and got me particularly excited for this week!

 

[Wally Fairway]

4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

It’ll be an even better tournament if Douche Koepka tanks….gotta say I’m not liking the good chance he’ll be up there.

It is always good to have a villain to root against; in my case I can't wait to cheer when Phil misses the cut

[Beastie]

Has anyone on here played LACC? The course looks great. Apparently it’s very much an old school Country club?

[Vinsk]

12 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

It is always good to have a villain to root against; in my case I can't wait to cheer when Phil misses the cut

Yeah..lol. But what about this: Phil makes it to Sunday with a lead…then pulls a Norman and throws it away…..knowing that would be his last chance…that would sting pretty good…..haha.

[jxdama]

6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

It’ll be an even better tournament if Douche Koepka tanks….gotta say I’m not liking the good chance he’ll be up there.

He  is the  best but  Scottie  has  been close  for weeks. A few  putts and he wins easy.

[iacas]

After U.S. Open commercial outrage, NBC and USGA slash commercials

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After last year’s U.S. Open on NBC drew the fury of golf fans for commercials, the network trimmed the number of commercial breaks.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Yeah..lol. But what about this: Phil makes it to Sunday with a lead…then pulls a Norman and throws it away…..knowing that would be his last chance…that would sting pretty good…..haha.

Nah. I’d prefer to see him miss the cut.

The broadcast would be insufferable if Phil is in contention on Sunday.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

After U.S. Open commercial outrage, NBC and USGA slash commercials

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After last year’s U.S. Open on NBC drew the fury of golf fans for commercials, the network...

One thing I would like them to do would not cost money and would add more televised golf.  All they need to do is ditch whatever “side story” they waste time telling via boring non-golfer interview segments.  

[pganapathy]

16 hours ago, klineka said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Par is irrelevant. The players are all playing the same yardage so the goal is to move the ball X number of yards in the fewest number of strokes. That's it.

They could call it a par 2 or a par 6 if they really wanted to without changing the outcome of the tournament. 

Par may be immaterial in a professional tournament but it really matters at an amateur level.  It determines how many strokes a higher handicap player gets and which holes they apply on.  Particularly in match play and stableford they determine stroke index by considering the par of the hole as one of the factors.  A 200 yard par 3 is a lot more difficult than a 250 yard par 4 in general.

I agree that we are talking about a professional tournament here but par is how we judge whether somebody has played a hole well or not.  Taking 5 shots on a 100 yard hole is bad, but on a 600 yard hole is good or is brilliant on a 1000 yard hole (if such holes exist).

So yes, par matters

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, mdl said:

In case haven't looked at the side bar when you click through to the above. This is WAY better and got me particularly excited for this week!

 

The barrancas can wreak havoc. I think they will pose a greater challenge than deep rough due to odd lies.

[GolfLug]

4 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Par may be immaterial in a professional tournament but it really matters at an amateur level.  It determines how many strokes a higher handicap player gets and which holes they apply on.  Particularly in match play and stableford they determine stroke index by considering the par of the hole as one of the factors.  A 200 yard par 3 is a lot more difficult than a 250 yard par 4 in general.

I agree that we are talking about a professional tournament here but par is how we judge whether somebody has played a hole well or not.  Taking 5 shots on a 100 yard hole is bad, but on a 600 yard hole is good or is brilliant on a 1000 yard hole (if such holes exist).

So yes, par matters

You are not wrong but I think you are misunderstanding his context.

For eg, I noticed the last four holes at LACC this week are all par 4s. They are all 500+ yards. Do you think it would matter to the players in how they play the holes if they changed them to 'par 5s'? I can guarantee they will all try to make 4 or better regardless.

In other words, a hole a hole does not become harder or easier, or the goal does not change, simply because what its par designation is. 

USGA can come out tomorrow and designate all holes as par 5s across the board regardless of length, but you know you suck if you make 5 on a 100 yard hole, even if you technically made a 'par'.

Edited June 15, 2023 by GolfLug

[iacas]

9 hours ago, StuM said:

One thing I would like them to do would not cost money and would add more televised golf.  All they need to do is ditch whatever “side story” they waste time telling via boring non-golfer interview segments.  

Did you read the article?

5 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Par may be immaterial in a professional tournament

And what topic is this…?

[klineka]

Spoiler

6 hours ago, pganapathy said:

A 200 yard par 3 is a lot more difficult than a 250 yard par 4 in general.

No. Assuming relatively the same style of hole (relatively flat, couple bunkers, nothing too crazy) the scoring average is going to be higher across all levels of golfers on the 250yd hole than it is on the 200yd hole, regardless of what par is.

If the concept of "par" didn't exist, you could still create hole handicaps by looking at the length of the hole, the difficulty, hazards, etc.

From 200yds on the tee PGA tour players average 3.12 strokes to hole out. From 250yds on the tee PGA tour players average right around 3.35 strokes to hole out. It's just math man. The longer the hole the more strokes on average it will take for any golfer to hole out. Regardless of if the hole is considered a par 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

What if in your scenario the 250yd hole was called a par 5? Or the 200yd hole was called a par 4? Does that make that hole any "easier" to play? No. The hole itself is unchanged, and the goal of the golfer is to get the ball to go X number of yards from the tee to the hole in as few shots as possible.

2 hours ago, GolfLug said:

In other words, a hole a hole does not become harder or easier, or the goal does not change, simply because what its par designation is. 

Yup, this ^^^

 

 

Spoiler bc off topic

[jxdama]

4 hours ago, GolfLug said:

You are not wrong but I think you are misunderstanding his context.

For eg, I noticed the last four holes at LACC this week are all par 4s. They are all 500+ yards. Do you think it would matter to the players in how they play the holes if they changed them to 'par 5s'? I can guarantee they will all try to make 4 or better regardless.

In other words, a hole a hole does not become harder or easier, or the goal does not change, simply because what its par designation is. 

USGA can come out tomorrow and designate all holes as par 5s across the board regardless of length, but you know you suck if you make 5 on a 100 yard hole, even if you technically made a 'par'.

It  makes a huge difference. Take that  joke par 5 last  week in the Canadian. Should  be a  500 yard  par  4.  If you take  a  joke par 5 where you can hit an IRON off the tee and turn it  into a  long  par 4 then it forces the  player to hit  driver. That creates more  margin for error and  makes a  PRO show why they are a  pro.  Again, take the  joke  par 5 last  week. Move the tee up just enough so driver gets you  over the  creek but  a  lesser  club  lands you  in the hazard. Pros should  not  be hitting  irons  off the tee on a  par  5. Make  it a  par 4. I  like this week there are  5 par 3's. All tiny tot  par 4's should be  converted to long  par 3's.

 

Bottom line  is  force Pro's to show why they are  pros.

Edited June 15, 2023 by jxdama

[StuM]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Did you read the article?

Yes I did, and it talks about 30% few commercial breaks to allow for @ 30% more actual golf coverage.  It says nothing about limiting the other "Fluff" or "Personal Interest" items often included in coverage that are not commercials but do take time away from showing the actual golf.

[klineka]

10 minutes ago, jxdama said:

It  makes a huge difference. Take that  joke par 5 last  week in the Canadian. Should  be a  500 yard  par  4.  If you take  a  joke par 5 where you can hit an IRON off the tee and turn it  into a  long  par 4 then it forces the  player to hit  driver. That creates more  margin for error and  makes a  PRO show why they are a  pro.  Again, take the  joke  par 5 last  week. Move the tee up just enough so driver gets you  over the  creek but  a  lesser  club  lands you  in the hazard. Pros should  not  be hitting  irons  off the tee on a  par  5. Make  it a  par 4. I  like this week there are  5 par 3's. All tiny tot  par 4's should be  converted to long  par 3's.

It doesn't matter what par is though, pros (and everyone) are trying to complete the hole in as few strokes as possible. 

The scoring average wouldn't have suddenly shifted by half a stroke or something if they called that hole last week (assuming you're talking about hole 18) a par 4 instead of a par 5. 

Moving the tee up is a different discussion and is irrelevant to what par is on the hole. They could have done that regardless of if the hole was called a par 4 or a par 5. 

 

Converting a "tiny tot par 4" into a long par 3 doesn't do anything to the scoring average if the yardage of the hole stays the same.

The only thing it does is raise the score relative to the made up construct of par which for some reason makes people like you enjoy golf more. 

[StuM]

12 minutes ago, jxdama said:

If you take  a  joke par 5 where you can hit an IRON off the tee and turn it  into a  long  par 4 then it forces the  player to hit  driver.

I disagree.  The players will play the hole in the way that they believe will result in the lowest total strokes, regardless of Par.  Just calling a hole a Par-4 does not in and of itself change the strategy a player will take for that hole.  Ultimateley it is total storkes that determin a winner, not how they are relative to par.  For Pros paying with no HCP adjustments the score relative to par is simply an easy way to show where a golfer is in relation to the competition.  I do agree that moving tees, etc. may change a player's strategy on the hole but it is not the stated Par that dictates strategy.