Why Aren’t More People Copying Moe Norman's Swing?

[shagbag541]

I'm curious as to why all the posts on this subject stopped all of a sudden!  I was interested to see if "pipergsm" continued to improve and if he progressed to incorporating the swing to his irons.

I've spent countless hours practicing and have taken many professional lessons and my handicap has not moved much at all, especially downward!  I practice more than I play because I have the facilities to do so.  Not long ago a light went on in my head...I needed to create more lag in my swing.  I consistently released the club too early, about midway.  Some of the drills I used from various posters at YouTube were very similar to Moe's coin drill, which is a drill to maintain a hitting angle and keep the club square and on "ball level" approximately 2 feet before and after contact.  In essence another way to create and maintain lag.

I'm a big fan of Moe Norman but I never really tried to emulate his swing or even the single plane swing.  Some posters here think you can't play good golf if you hit the ball straight every time.  That makes me laugh...laugh very hard actually.  I'm 62 now and in my younger day I could, at times, hit the ball 300+ yards off the tie, but more often than not, I wasn't in good position...at times not even in play!  I could consistently hit the ball 260 to 270 often with the same results as the 300+ yard drives.  I can still hit the ball 240 to 260 and occasionally hit a bomb 270+.

I think there is a tremendous advantage to hitting the ball straight a very high percentage of the time.  I was never able to work the ball consistently.  I can hit a draw or a fade, but I am not able to control the amount of draw or fade very often.  If I could not only hit fairways off the tee a high percentage of the time, with the ability to work the ball exactly how I wanted, I wouldn't ever need to tinker with my swing.  But in more that 30 years of golf I've never been able to accomplish that.

So I've been tinkering with some of Moe's fundamentals.  I don't take as wide of a stance as he does, but I've been standing wider than the conventional golfer would.  I think I understand what Moe meant by "vertical drop and horizontal tug" and I'm working on swing through the impact area like Moe did and finishing between the "rails", which is something I always noticed I did on my better shots.

I'll be more than happy to report my progress here, if anyone is interested in the results.  My goal will be to hit the ball straighter a very high percentage of the time and to sacrifice some distance in order to accomplish this.  I'd be willing to hit the ball 230 to 250 off the tee and lose 8 to 10 yards off my irons so long as I was able to hit the ball dead straight 90% of the time.  We'll see.

[bplewis24]

Some posters here think you can't play good golf if you hit the ball straight every time.

I'd very much like to know who thinks that.

[shagbag541]

I'd very much like to know who thinks that.

Just read through all the posts, there are several posters who think you have to work the ball to play good golf.

[MS256]

If you do like I do and unintentionally "work the ball" into trouble you better be able to intentionally "work the ball" back out of trouble. ;-) On the other hand the guy that owns the course where I work is the most consistent and accurate golfer I have ever seen and I have never seen him work the ball (and never saw him need to).

[shagbag541]

I guess what I'm going to try and accomplish by using the Moe Norman approach is to never unintentionally "work" the ball into trouble.  Just want to see if I can hit it dead straight most every time.  I've been very athletic my entire life, but the one thing I've never been able to master is the golf swing.

I can't remember which video I watched where Moe was asked when was the last time he entirely missed a fairway.  Moe replied "Seven years ago".  That's my goal ;)  And before everyone shakes their heads and chimes in...I know it's not attainable, but I'd settle for 12 fairways a round.  lol  And I also know that Moe said lots of stuff tongue in cheek.

[dennyjones]

I'm very interested in following your results.   I, like you have toyed with golf in the past but two years ago finally decided to put time and effort into learning to play better.   Last winter I took 12 lessons from two very good instructors and my game improved some but I'd like to have a handicap in the single digits.    Any revelations you experience would be greatly appreciated if they were shared.

[shagbag541]

Ok Denny, I'll be happy to report my progress.  It'll probably take a little while to see any results one way or the other as I don't expect any overnight success or failure...but I'll be giving it a go and let you know what the results are as I go.

[Golfingdad]

Just read through all the posts, there are several posters who think you have to work the ball to play good golf.

I think you might be confusing people recommending that you have a reliable shot shape one way or the other with "working the ball." Playing a draw or a fade as your go to shot, as opposed to trying to hit it dead straight, is preferable ... But that is not really "working the ball." Having a dead straight shot as your goal is always going to lead to your ball curving away from the target. You don't know if it's going to curve a little left or a little right ... But you do know that 99% of the time it will curve one way. The smarter play is to have a swing pattern that you know is almost always going to curve left, for example, such that you can maximize your room for error. To me, when I hear people talking about working the ball, I take that to mean that they come to each shot and decide which way they want to try and curve it. If that is what the posters you are referring to we're talking about, then I agree with you. That's not reliable (unless you are awfully, awfully good) and would lead to inconsistencies.

[shagbag541]

I think you might be confusing people recommending that you have a reliable shot shape one way or the other with "working the ball." Playing a draw or a fade as your go to shot, as opposed to trying to hit it dead straight, is preferable ... But that is not really "working the ball."

Having a dead straight shot as your goal is always going to lead to your ball curving away from the target. You don't know if it's going to curve a little left or a little right ... But you do know that 99% of the time it will curve one way. The smarter play is to have a swing pattern that you know is almost always going to curve left, for example, such that you can maximize your room for error.

To me, when I hear people talking about working the ball, I take that to mean that they come to each shot and decide which way they want to try and curve it. If that is what the posters you are referring to we're talking about, then I agree with you. That's not reliable (unless you are awfully, awfully good) and would lead to inconsistencies.

I guess I'll just comment on what I want to attempt to do and try not to interpret what others mean with their comments.  That way I can't become confused.

I know that if I was able to duplicate a reliable fade or draw, then I could use the entire fairway.  I agree, it's smart to set up and aim to the left side of the fairway if you can hit a consistent and reliable fade and the opposite if you could depend upon a reliable and consistent draw.  I haven't been able to be consistent doing that.  Sometimes that draw becomes a hook and the fade a wicked slice.

I want to hit the ball dead straight...not necessarily "dead straight down the fairway"...but straight with respect to where I set up and wish to aim the ball.  I don't want the ball to curve one way or the other.  I don't know if I'll be able to accomplish this or not, but I'm going to try...because I know it's possible because Moe Norman was able to do it.

As I stated before, I'm a pretty good athlete, so I think I'll be able to do this to some extent.  I know trying to successfully repeat the traditional swing isn't working for me and also doesn't always work on a weekly basis for touring professionals.  Ever notice even the best players lose consistency for weeks at a time?  Or stay hot for weeks at a time, then lose it for a few weeks?  Moe Norman never lost his swing or consistency....ever.  So I'm going to seriously try this thing and see where it takes me.

[nevets88]

We know Norman can hit it straight. Anyone know how good he was at working the ball, curve and/or height?

[soon_tourpro]

We know Norman can hit it straight. Anyone know how good he was at working the ball, curve and/or height?

He could hit any shot shape he wanted.

He was the best ballstriker in the game.

[newtogolf]

He could hit any shot shape he wanted.

He was the best ballstriker in the game.

Which Norman and game are you talking about?

[iacas]

Which Norman and game are you talking about?

Can't we just assume it's the Norman whose first name is in the thread title?

[newtogolf]

Can't we just assume it's the Norman whose first name is in the thread title?

Sorry, I was incredulous that of all the ball strikers in professional golf that @soon_tourpro would place Moe Norman at the top of the list.  Moe only played in 27 PGA Tour events with 1 top 10 finish, not exactly the results you'd expect from the #1 ball striker in professional golf.  Admittedly he had a better career in Canada, but #1 ball striker?

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Can't we just assume it's the Norman whose first name is in the thread title?

Sorry, I was incredulous that of all the ball strikers in professional golf that @soon_tourpro would place Moe Norman at the top of the list.  Moe only played in 27 PGA Tour events with 1 top 10 finish, not exactly the results you'd expect from the #1 ball striker in professional golf.  Admittedly he had a better career in Canada, but #1 ball striker?

Yea, it's weird right? But a lot of people in the know in the world of golf hold this opinion, or at least, agree that Moe was at least a top 10 all time ballstriker, if not the best, despite his pro record. He had some chemical imbalance issues that probably cost him.

Soon_tour_pro's kind of a knucklehead (IMO), but his opinion is not uncommon.

Since so many famous pros, teaching pros, and talking heads say Moe might have been the best ball striker, I'm inclined to at least respect their opinion. But Moe was obviously well before I started following golf, so my personal opinion of his consistency probably isn't all that in-depth; however, I think Moe claimed to have something like a 10+ year streak of having not missed a single fairway, or something ridiculous like that.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that last bit of trivia.

[soon_tourpro]

Sorry, I was incredulous that of all the ball strikers in professional golf that @soon_tourpro would place Moe Norman at the top of the list.  Moe only played in 27 PGA Tour events with 1 top 10 finish, not exactly the results you'd expect from the #1 ball striker in professional golf.  Admittedly he had a better career in Canada, but #1 ball striker?

Yea he shot 59 a few times in competitions also and holds a number of course records.

None was better, not Hogan nor anyone else Nicklaus or Eldrick not even close.

if you want to be ignorant go ahead but all the angels knows Moe knew the secret.

Moe was the best everyone else played for second.

He was and is unmatched as a ballstriker.

at older age he retain the accuracy but not the distance and was plenty long in his younger days.

[MS256]

Sorry, I was incredulous that of all the ball strikers in professional golf that @soon_tourpro would place Moe Norman at the top of the list.  Moe only played in 27 PGA Tour events with 1 top 10 finish, not exactly the results you'd expect from the #1 ball striker in professional golf.  Admittedly he had a better career in Canada, but #1 ball striker?

It is hard to figure out just where the myth of Moe Norman leaves off and the facts start.

I always figured by all accounts he was a great ball striker that couldn't putt. Since I only know one guy that ever played with Moe I decided to bring up the subject one day with him. I expected him to say something like "Yeah he could really hit the ball" but instead all I got was a disgusted look and "Don't believe half of the shit you hear. He was a damned nut."

Well...That ended that conversation.

What I think I know. Like a lot of guys that played back then what he said he was doing during his swing doesn't always match up with what the videos show he was actually doing.

[newtogolf]

It is hard to figure out just where the myth of Moe Norman leaves off and the facts start.

I always figured by all accounts he was a great ball striker that couldn't putt. Since I only know one guy that ever played with Moe I decided to bring up the subject one day with him. I expected him to say something like "Yeah he could really hit the ball" but instead all I got was a disgusted look and "Don't believe half of the shit you hear. He was a damned nut."

Well...That ended that conversation.

What I think I know. Like a lot of guys that played back then what he said he was doing during his swing doesn't always match up with what the videos show he was actually doing.

I've seen some videos on Moe, and read the book Moe and Me but never actually saw him play in an event.  He seemed to be heralded as a great ball striker and would put on shows at the range where he worked but because of his mental limitations he couldn't handle the pressure of the PGA Tour.

I might accept he was Top 10, but #1 seems to be a reach.  If his ball striking was as good as @soon_tourpro claims, then it really begs the question why more people haven't tried to duplicate it.