Flipping at Impact Master Thread

[laxbballgolf]

  Zeph said:

Originally Posted by Zeph

I agree that you're not flipping, at least not a lot. The club is a big blur on your video, but the fact that you got so little wrist hinge means there is not a lot of angle to lose on the downswing. It looks like you drive the club well, but with that little amount of wrist hinge, it's hard to hold the lag for long enough to have the ball more forward. The wedge starts to increase at some point in the swing, regardless of what we do. It's the force of gravity and centripital force pulling the club down. If the angle is pretty shallow to begin with, you don't have a lot of room to work with. By moving the ball back, you can make it work pretty well. Swinging with little wrist hinge might be a good way to find a good feeling for driving the club. If you don't have any angles to give up, you'll be forced to hold it.

Judging by the position of your hands prior to impact, I think you could move the ball forward and perhaps make some small changes in the swing and hit it well. Your hips also don't move a whole lot forward, very little secondary axis tilt.

It would be easier with a better video, but with some changes I think it would work. Lag is in my view pressure and a driving force, like Lynn Blake talks about. If you kan keep driving the hands fast enough to be ahead of the ball at impact, you have held the lag well. Optimizing the "release" sounds like something you'd need pretty high tech equipment to do. Hitting the ball with a forward leaning shaft pretty much takes care of maximizing the speed. Optimizing the lag sounds like the PA5 stuff Dave and Erik is talking about, but for teaching purposes, it's mostly about getting into a good impact position.

I think your ball position is a result of your swing. With little wrist hinge and shallowing the angle early, you've put the ball there to hit it properly. If you have a chance to get a video with more FPS, it would certainly help.

Oh, and I would rather have the max amount of speed at the ball, not before or after. Still, if you peak inches before or after it doesn't matter a whole lot, I'd rather want a forward leaning shaft to make sure I hit the ball first every time and on the sweet spot.

More wrist hinge, more hip slide. Your head stays pretty still and you don't have a too active right foot.

And again, it's your swing, your call. I'm just pointing out things that I would recommend and probably work on myself. Not trying to talk crap about your swing dude.

I agree with everything you said.  Thanks for the input.  The thread I linked actually made me realize how little wrist hinge I was making...I'm not entirely sure if I have increased it since then.  I need to resist the urge to just play golf when I have free time and instead actually get some new video!

I think the only place we might differ in our thoughts a little is about how to think about lag and how to get feedback about lag in our own swings - but maybe we even agree about that.  For a bit, I was thinking pretty mechanically about lag, and now I have started to emphasize how fluid of a concept lag really is.  At least for me, I ran into trouble trying to get myself into the ideal positions and I lost some perspective about the big picture.

[Zeph]

I'm not saying lag is mechanical, but if you got a good impact position, at least you haven't thrown the flying wedge away. Of course, the flying wedge and lag is not the same thing, but they are certainly related.

Lag can't be seen or measured directly, it is a feeling. But we can see pretty well the results of how well someone holds the lag on a video. It is working on lag that makes it difficult, finding that fluid motion. Trying to swing like Ernie Els helps for some people, just imagining his nice rythm.

[khale]

My biggest problem is flipping the wrist at impact. As a result, my ball flight is sky high. My pitching distance is 100 yard. I have been trying to eliminate this but with no success. I have tried the 'secret' by Greg Normal, and the impact bag but still no result. Is this some thing that can be cured? Has anyone been cured from this?

[Kieran123]

This may help you

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/36669/maintaining-the-flying-wedge

[Zeph]

  khale said:

Originally Posted by khale

My biggest problem is flipping the wrist at impact. As a result, my ball flight is sky high. My pitching distance is 100 yard. I have been trying to eliminate this but with no success. I have tried the 'secret' by Greg Normal, and the impact bag but still no result. Is this some thing that can be cured? Has anyone been cured from this?

Not cured, but I've made very good progress. There are really a lot of things that can cause your problems, so I won't give out too many tips without seeing your swing. In my opinion, random internet tips is a harder way to approach the problem.

[kehanra99]

  khale said:

Originally Posted by khale

My biggest problem is flipping the wrist at impact. As a result, my ball flight is sky high. My pitching distance is 100 yard. I have been trying to eliminate this but with no success. I have tried the 'secret' by Greg Normal, and the impact bag but still no result. Is this some thing that can be cured? Has anyone been cured from this?

If you are using your arms too much in your swing you will flip those shots.  You still have to rely on should and hip turn for your swing when you swing these lower clubs.  Your wrists will lock a bit to help guide the club through, and you won't have the opportunity to flip them before striking the ball.  Think of brushing your lead hand forward through water on your way through the bottom of your swing.

[nevets88]

Most people throw their clubhead out too early with a cupped wrist. I know I did because I unknowingly thought high was good when I first started out.

The opposite of it is a totally different feeling and can be learned with practice, start with small swings and chips.

The fastest way to get cure it? A good instructor. Dr. Goodswing, ha ha.

[JackLee]

Flipping is caused by an independent arm swing that gets ahead of your body movements.  You need to do the swinging with your body and hands, not your arms and hands.

[Zeph]

  JackLee said:

Originally Posted by JackLee

Flipping is caused by an independent arm swing that gets ahead of your body movements.  You need to do the swinging with your body and hands, not your arms and hands.

I find that an incorrect statement. The body movement is mostly about sequencing, you can swing with only the arms and hands, and not flip. A lack of arm and hand speed is often a problem, combined with too much wrist action. There can be many issues contributed to flipping, using video is the best way to approach it.

[inthecup]

The flying wedge drill is interesting.  Start with a very small swing.  I would start with a drill where you do not get the club above parallel to the ground on the back swing and do the flying wedge movement.

Think of the the left(front) hands primary purpose is to square the club head to the ball and the right hand / arms purpose is to deliver the club head to the ball.

With the right arm I mean from its bent at the elbow position in the back swing the right arm pushes down and out.  The right wrist never unfolds.  Keep the front wrist flat.  Rotate the right shoulder under.

Hard to explain with words, sorry.

From one recovering flipper to a flipper.  It can be fixed and the juice is definitely worth the squeeze.  I find the of the many benefits of not flipping control of the balls direction to be the on the top of the list.  If you have lots of wrist action controlling the club head at impact is difficult.

[nevets88]

For me, slowly getting rid of club throwaway leading wrist cup, the primary benefit for me is consistency, equally distance and direction. Fixing this problem or mitigating it doesn't just help ball striking, it percolates everywhere, pitching, chipping and bunker play.

[inthecup]

  nevets88 said:

Originally Posted by nevets88

For me, slowly getting rid of club throwaway leading wrist cup, the primary benefit for me is consistency, equally distance and direction.

Fixing this problem or mitigating it doesn't just help ball striking, it percolates everywhere, pitching, chipping and bunker play.

I agree

[CuppedTin]

What are some drills to stop flipping the club at impact?

[kurisu]

You keep asking the same questions...

Erik already pointed many times to the "Hit and Stop" drill:

and he pointed to many others addressing this exact issue, i.e. keeping the flying wedge, in other words a flat wrist at impact.

You have to start with quarter swings, then half swings. You can't expect to just be able to do it on full swing by simply "wishing" it.

Bobby Clampett described a drill where you grip the club, place your leading wrist (for you the right wrist) flat against a wall, feeling it flat, and trying to reproduce this feeling at impact. I've seen a total beginner that was flipping like crazy have good result with this drill, so for you at your level it should be quite easy.

But if you don't want to listen to / follow the advices people give you then stop asking the same questions over and over again.

[CuppedTin]

I have never asked about flipping, but the first half of what you said was useful... Thanks

[CuppedTin]

Ok, I just watched a video on YouTube about the flying wedge from the Golfing Machine, it was very easy to understand but it almost sounded like he was saying to take the club up with the left arm and return it with the left arm. (remember I'm left handed)... He used the analogy of using (2) rackets. Basically keeping a firm right wrist with one racket and taking the other racket back with my left hand and returning it with my left hand to impact position.

[jamo]

  CuppedTin said:

I have never asked about flipping, but the first half of what you said was useful... Thanks

If I understand it correctly, flipping is basically what happens when you lose the right arm flying wedge.

[mchepp]

Flipping is a compensation made for your body to hit the ball after being in an improper position. Be it an open club face, club too steep, what have you. Focusing on the flip is a mistake. Find where in your swing you are making errors and fix that.

This might be unpopular here, but I believe holding flying wedges is a tough way to learn to not flip. I know of very few golfers who have done it just by holding a flying wedge. I think the flying wedge is an observation by HK of a position that good players achieve it is not an active drill to prevent flipping.