Tiger Woods will never regain golf dominance

[crayputter]

You know...MANY, MANY people don't realise this....but the words below can't be anymore true....

I am personal friends with someone who works on the Asian Tour. It's not right for me divulge too much, but the 'top rung' pro golfers in the tour, AND the ones they pay shitloads of cash to appear every big tournamanent now and then, are very well 'taken care' of after the sun goes down...

I also spoke to a caddie who works in the Asian Tour, and I was shocked at the extent of a caddie's job scope...he was telling me how he had to 'babysit' his player to make sure he doesn't overdo his 'skirt chasing' and 'booze binges' at nights to make sure he makes his next morning tee time !

Of course all this are kept hush-hush, not only because of the players involved, but more so because of the huge corporations involved..I mean we're talking major banks, insurance companies, etc...

Tiger didn't just get caught....he got screwed over by one of the many ladies he did...probably due to some tabloid playing HUGE $$$$$ to them for the story....

Ray

Quote:

As for people's hate towards Tiger's transgressions, just as a "food for thought," do you all REALLY think that Tiger WAS and IS the only golfer or athlete for that matter messing around on his wife (now former wife)???  The reality is that he got caught...1. and 2. caught in a time where media is at an all time high when it comes to coverage and the paying off of people by the media; specifically, the woman who came out and admitted to his whoring.

Now, re-wind to the 60s and 70s and you better believe that Arnold and Jack in their hay day had their share of "fun."  What was the difference?  A LOT more people willing to keep it hush hush and a lack of blatant media tracking their every move (internet, twitter, facebook, TMZ, etc etc etc).  Anyone who thinks Tiger's whoring i ssomething new is either extremely naive or in a serious need of a wake up call.  Get over it already people...

[tsdnorton]

Lose his tour card in 5 years eh? You do realize that he has a 10yr exemption on all majors from his last Major win right?

And you're absoloutely out of your mind if you think he will lose his tour card.. This is Tiger Woods we are talking about here.. Not your average tour player.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by largermarge

I said Tigers on the way down, lots of people made excuses and say no, then the results come out and they prove my original point to be true.

Welcome to the Sandtrap forums where the board moderators will ban you if you say anything against their has-been, slut chasing, false Idol, Tiger Woods.

So much for freedom of speech... the moderators here are obviously a bunch of Godless Communists that cant handle the truth.

-LM

Every single post you've made here has been Tiger Woods bashing. Plus you didn't pay up on your wagers. You have no integrity. Shame on you. :)

Originally Posted by crayputter

You know...MANY, MANY people don't realise this....but the words below can't be anymore true....

I am personal friends with someone who works on the Asian Tour. It's not right for me divulge too much, but the 'top rung' pro golfers in the tour, AND the ones they pay shitloads of cash to appear every big tournamanent now and then, are very well 'taken care' of after the sun goes down...

I also spoke to a caddie who works in the Asian Tour, and I was shocked at the extent of a caddie's job scope...he was telling me how he had to 'babysit' his player to make sure he doesn't overdo his 'skirt chasing' and 'booze binges' at nights to make sure he makes his next morning tee time !

Of course all this are kept hush-hush, not only because of the players involved, but more so because of the huge corporations involved..I mean we're talking major banks, insurance companies, etc...

Tiger didn't just get caught....he got screwed over by one of the many ladies he did...probably due to some tabloid playing HUGE $$$$$ to them for the story....

Ray

Here! Here!

[Chas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

You were really going out on a limb when you suggested that if Tiger starts hitting his approach shots closer to the pin, he'll shoot better scores. That was ballsy.

LOL, maybe I deserved that.  OK, I didn't express myself optimally - it happens (very very rarely, but it does happen).  There's a bit more to my analysis than that old chap ....

I personally don't understand why he's changing his game so fundamentally.  Unless it's a response to medical issues of course.  To me he'd have done better to stick with the old game (minor tweaks) and just play play play (in pro events), and work on getting his feel back.  Laying off for so long to undergo "sex therapy" was bally silly and very damaging to his game imo, I said so at the time.  I suppose he felt he had to do it, but where did it get him? [rhet.]

My point is all this refashioning of his game from the ground up may be just making it harder for him to return to the old dominant form.  But w-t-h do I know, I can't even get into the 70's.  If he dominates again he'll have proved his point and I'll have egg on my face.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by Chas

I personally don't understand why he's changing his game so fundamentally.  Unless it's a response to medical issues of course.  To me he'd have done better to stick with the old game and just play play play (in pro events), and work on getting his feel back.

Because his swing was broken. He had a two-way miss that he was losing control of, so he felt like he needed a change. Whether or not you believe in Foley (and Haney) and his teaching, sometimes you just need to make a change.

[Chas]

Thanks, I admit that I hadn't been following his game that closely (technical aspects I mean) and didn't realize he had such fundamental problems.  His fairways hit was never that hot but he always used to compensate so well, pull it off with brilliant iron play etc.  Guess that only gets you so far, even if you're TW .....

[Tho26]

Last week I watched the Dubai Desert Classic and he didn't play that bad. On Friday he played briljant if you compare him to normal players, for Tiger's standards it was a good day. I think it's just a matter of time before he is getting back to his "normal" game! But will he ever be that dominant as he was before? I don't think so! Will he ever be number one again? Definitly!!

[StricklandPropane]

Couldn't Tiger still technically lose his card via death?  LargeMarge wouldn't have to pay up until 5 years time.  If Tiger's still breathing air at that point, he loses.

[Zeph]

If Tiger stopped playing on the PGA Tour, it would be from resigning, not losing his card. That's preposterous.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Chas

I personally don't understand why he's changing his game so fundamentally.  Unless it's a response to medical issues of course.  To me he'd have done better to stick with the old game (minor tweaks) and just play play play (in pro events), and work on getting his feel back.

My thoughts are

First, I don't know who terminated the relationship -- Hank or Tiger. Apparently, Hank fired Tiger by texting him. Perhaps, Hank discovered that Tiger was talking with Foley. I don't know. We do know that Hank is tired of teaching. He doesn't really teach any longer, according to him. I'm sure he goes out and looks at students and makes suggestions. But I doubt if you'll see him on a range on a regular basis unless it's for publicity or a celebrity. He's said for a long time that Tiger is his last student.

Second, Tiger was left and right off the tee with Haney. I certainly am not technical in the swing, but inconsistency on a daily basis is not a good thing. Hank could not get rid of Tiger getting stuck, or so it seems according to the experts. The so-called experts said it was due to his shoulders being rather flat. There is also that excessive dip thing, a lot of rotation with the arms with Hank, and Tiger trying to kill the ball -- his swing, I think, depended a lot on timing, and the timing was inconsistent.

Of course, the beauty of stack 'n tilt, say the experts, is that it does not rely on timing. Perhaps the idea of consistency is what sold Tiger on discussing ideas with Foley. And when Hank said "no mas," Tiger had a new guru.

[Chas]

Thanks for taking the time Desmond, that all seems very plausible and consistent with the known facts (such as they are).  TW is a bright enough fellow and I'm sure he had good reasons for making the change, and certainly his inaccuracy off the tee had been hurting him for a while.

I wonder what he's said when asked directly about it ...... probably not very much.  He's quite private about that type of thing.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

Last week I watched the Dubai Desert Classic and he didn't play that bad. On Friday he played briljant if you compare him to normal players, for Tiger's standards it was a good day. I think it's just a matter of time before he is getting back to his "normal" game! But will he ever be that dominant as he was before? I don't think so! Will he ever be number one again? Definitely!!

The Wall Street Journal golf guy wrote on sports dominance last weekend. JPNewport compares Tiger's dominance and recent falloff to Ted Williams hitting .406 in 1941, but no one since. When a Tiger or a Ted comes along, their competitors find ways to increase their performance to remove the dominance. JPN interviews a sports statistician who has some interesting comments.

Here's the link: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704900004576152281985708802.html

[Uber$winG]

So… one could assert (by way of Gould’s perspective on evolutionary biology) that Tiger’s dominance was the exclamation point in the golfing form of punctuated equilibrium.

[Tho26]

I hope Tiger gets back in form. Because everyone is saying I beated Tiger but Tiger isn't on his best right now. So when Tiger is on his best and you can beat him...then I think Tigers golflife is over, and I think that is what he looking for at this moment. Just get back in form, when people are playing better at that moment he will quit golf I think... what do you guys think?

[B-Con]

I find it funny how players of skill between "very good" (but not dominating) and "mediocre", in all sports, can have off-seasons and slumps, and most people can look past it and say "he just needs to rebound, he'll be back". But if a dominating, top-of-the-line player has a slump, everyone predicts his complete and thorough demise. Michael Jordan retired, came back, and some people predicted that he was finished and relegated to mediocrity. They were wrong. I don't like Woods, but slumps don't work much differently for dominating players than for normal players. The dominating players have less wiggle room that they can return to when they exit the slump (if the ranked 7th player goes into a slump and returns at ranked 8th, no one really cares, but if the ranked 1st goes into a slump and returns at ranked 2, it's a big deal), but the general principle is the same. Woods has a perfectly good chance of returning to and staying in the world's top 3.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by B-Con

I find it funny how players of skill between "very good" (but not dominating) and "mediocre", in all sports, can have off-seasons and slumps, and most people can look past it and say "he just needs to rebound, he'll be back". But if a dominating, top-of-the-line player has a slump, everyone predicts his complete and thorough demise. Michael Jordan retired, came back, and some people predicted that he was finished and relegated to mediocrity. They were wrong.

I don't like Woods, but slumps don't work much differently for dominating players than for normal players. The dominating players have less wiggle room that they can return to when they exit the slump (if the ranked 7th player goes into a slump and returns at ranked 8th, no one really cares, but if the ranked 1st goes into a slump and returns at ranked 2, it's a big deal), but the general principle is the same.

Woods has a perfectly good chance of returning to and staying in the world's top 3.

With Woods though, there was an order of magnitude between him in first and the next guy at second. There may have been other golfers who dominated like he did, for long enough stretches to have that kind of lead, but none since the "OWGR" came along, and certainly none for pretty much an entire decade. Nelson, Nicklaus, Hogan and Watson come to mind, but since I'm not a statistician, I can't say for sure. Tiger was certainly the best front runner and closer of his generation. Now he seems more like Greg Norman, Fred Couples, or Davis Love III. He hits great shots, but makes too many mistakes in between. He needs to stop hitting so many bad shots, plain and simple.

Personally, I think Tiger peaked about 5 years ago and his fantastic 2009 was just a blip in a slowly declining career. Who knows, maybe he'll outdo Vijay's "after 40" record, but don't hold your breath.

[sonicblue]

I don't see how anyone who truly loves the sport of golf couldn't root for Tiger to return to form.  He is the only person I've ever had the privilege of watching, who seemingly could WILL himself into contention.  I mean, the US Open at Torrey Pines on a busted knee, for crying out loud!  Week in, week out, he would always find a way to make the clutch putt, stick the approach, chip in....  While in any given week, someone on the Tour is doing the same, to see one guy repeatedly do it - and isn't that what makes golf so hard, to be consistently good, let alone consistently good enough to beat an entire field?  To say he will or won't....it's an exercise in futility.  I believe because he psychologically knows what it's like to have been there (which is why Phil went from no majors for years, to getting a bunch after getting his first), and being in phenomenal physical condition, it's a tough argument to say, oh, he's done, he's too old.  But that's just my opinion, I don't care if anyone agrees or not.  Beyond that, to get into where his head is with the rest of his life, where his swing is, is it getting better, who's his teacher....it's all a bunch of worthless speculation.

Tiger is a huge reason why so many of these young players are where they are now, because they wanted to chase him.  If gets back near his elite level before, it's only going to keep pushing them.  I would love to see Rory McIlroy play with Tiger in the last group of the Masters, and then Tiger and Fowler at the US Open, and have Tiger take them down with his best against their best, and then one day have Tiger's best be a little short, and have a young guy win, or any of a number of scenarios where really good golf is showcased by the game's best.  To sit here and wish that Tiger's game never returns, and that he fades into obscurity, while the occasional 'hot kid' of the week manages a win, just seems unjust if you love the game.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sonicblue

I don't see how anyone who truly loves the sport of golf couldn't root for Tiger to return to form.

I didn't get past that bit. It turns out I've been living a lie and don't truly love golf. Getting on with my life now.