Tiger "tantrum" Woods

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I am far from a Tiger apologist, as he does do things on the course that he shouldn't, but I think there's the opposite side of this issue, and that is, anything he does is magnified because of who he is. I would be willing to bet that he wasn't the only player this week that kicked a club after a poor shot. But since it's Tiger it's an issue.

Zip, this is basically true, and I agree with you.  However, there are also some out there that, no matter what he does, it's simply not a big deal.  If it's something on the course, it's "Doesn't affect me", "Not a big deal, just tap it down", or "Everyone does that from time to time."  If it's off the course behavior, then "The golf is all that matters", etc.

But if someone wrongs Tiger, even by revealing that they were too intimidated by his imposing presence to ask for a popsicle, or has the gall to notice that he was having trouble in his marriage, it's a "massive breach of trust" by a "scumsucking douchebag."

Originally Posted by iacas

And "he took a divot out of one of the par 5 tee boxes with his 3 wood"? Seriously? In what way exactly does that violate ANY code of ethics or responsibility? Tiger often takes divots - as do several other pros - with their fairway metals, hybrids, irons, etc.

Originally Posted by iacas

I've since seen it. Step on it and it's all fine. Yawn.

But hey, I get the outrage. Tiger is the only golfer to ever do anything like that.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by carrx

I'm a fan of the game, and therefore of Tiger.  I saw the club kicking incident, I saw the "tee box" divot so frequently mentioned, and I saw the Stenson tantrum as well.  I think many of the posters here have the right of it - Tiger is a bit of a diva, and the problem is compounded by the amount of coverage he gets when he's playing.

However, what bothers me most about Tiger here isn't the incident itself, but his apparently lack of real remorse for losing his cool.  He seems to take his contention with the media to mean he isn't really answerable for the stupid things he does.  To wit, when asked about the golf club kicking incident, he seemed to try and justify it merely by saying, "Yeah I'm sorry, but...I was really frustrated out there."

All golfers get frustrated out there when they're not hitting shots they feel capable of hitting.  He once again missed the opportunity to show some class and to say with any sincerity, "I really shouldn't have behaved that way, that's not the appropriate way to handle failure, and I'm genuinely sorry for my loss of cool."

And did anybody else out there see his agent Steinberg standing in the background on camera mad dogging the journalist and shaking his head as if the guy was out of line?

Don't take this to mean I'm a Tiger hater.  Quite the opposite, I always root for him to contend and to play his best.  I don't really care if he curses, and loses his mind every once in a while.  It's normal.  I just think he needs to show the game more respect, and own up to it when he f*cks up.

Tiger is a very intense man on the golf course and is more driven than anyone since Michael Jordan. He hates to fail and other than his obvious talent, this is the reason he is one of the best golfers in history. It's part of who he is. I can see why he should apologize for his on course temper but I don't think it would be at all genuine for him to say he's sorry for losing his cool. Especially when it's blown out of (IMO) proportion by the press and the coverage he gets.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by GolfBear

If I'm not mistaken, Green was in a pretty bad accident and lost both his girlfriend and dog.   Life has not been kind to Mr. Green.

And a leg. He tried to make a comeback on the Champions Tour -

[jamo]

If you want to punish all the guys that throw tantrums change the thread name and we can bash all the guys who threw tantrums this week.  If you want to single out Tiger, then own your dislike of Tiger and have a Tiger bashing party.

Agreed. The last few days in the chats, whenever a golfer did something even mildly controversial someone would say "Ban Him!" They were mostly sarcastic, but a lot of them would have warranted seven threads if Tiger did them.

[FHopper]

I love to watch a round with Tiger in it. I used to be in awe of his ability to bring spectators to the game of golf. He now is simply a run of the mill PGA representative. There are times when he is a good ambassador and times when he is not. I figured something out this weekend about my admiration for Tiger; I always thought he was gifted, he is not. He is a technician and nothing more. When his swing is "broken" he is done, he has nowhere to go. Bubba is gifted. The swing coach is the worst thing that has ever happened to golf and it has ruined Tiger. His tantrums are a logical result of his need to swing technically and failing. He should take the year off and hit the Billiards circuit to get some feel back and learn to trust his senses rather than someone else' "script". Every golfer should have a few lessons, no golfer should have a coach.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Zeph

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[newtogolf]

Tiger is probably the most polarizing athlete in sports currently.  People either like him or hate him.  Overall I'd describe Tiger's relationship with the media as cool but since his accident, most journalists realize Tiger isn't going to speak to them so instead they have gone to great lengths to trash him and take cheap shots any chance they get.  It seems the best way to get a headline these days is to trash Tiger.  I would also agree that Tiger is partially responsible for the situation he created with the media.

IMO Steinberg needs to get some PR people to work with Tiger or things will just continue to spiral downward with the media.  He's not winning enough to have his golf success overcome this negative public persona and I'm not sure Tiger knows how to fix things himself.  I saw him try to be funny and show some humility in the interview after his final round but he just doesn't seem genuine when he speaks.

Originally Posted by carrx

I'm a fan of the game, and therefore of Tiger.  I saw the club kicking incident, I saw the "tee box" divot so frequently mentioned, and I saw the Stenson tantrum as well.  I think many of the posters here have the right of it - Tiger is a bit of a diva, and the problem is compounded by the amount of coverage he gets when he's playing.

However, what bothers me most about Tiger here isn't the incident itself, but his apparently lack of real remorse for losing his cool.  He seems to take his contention with the media to mean he isn't really answerable for the stupid things he does.  To wit, when asked about the golf club kicking incident, he seemed to try and justify it merely by saying, "Yeah I'm sorry, but...I was really frustrated out there."

All golfers get frustrated out there when they're not hitting shots they feel capable of hitting.  He once again missed the opportunity to show some class and to say with any sincerity, "I really shouldn't have behaved that way, that's not the appropriate way to handle failure, and I'm genuinely sorry for my loss of cool."

And did anybody else out there see his agent Steinberg standing in the background on camera mad dogging the journalist and shaking his head as if the guy was out of line?

Don't take this to mean I'm a Tiger hater.  Quite the opposite, I always root for him to contend and to play his best.  I don't really care if he curses, and loses his mind every once in a while.  It's normal.  I just think he needs to show the game more respect, and own up to it when he f*cks up.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by FHopper

I love to watch a round with Tiger in it. I used to be in awe of his ability to bring spectators to the game of golf. He now is simply a run of the mill PGA representative. There are times when he is a good ambassador and times when he is not. I figured something out this weekend about my admiration for Tiger; I always thought he was gifted, he is not. He is a technician and nothing more. When his swing is "broken" he is done, he has nowhere to go. Bubba is gifted. The swing coach is the worst thing that has ever happened to golf and it has ruined Tiger. His tantrums are a logical result of his need to swing technically and failing. He should take the year off and hit the Billiards circuit to get some feel back and learn to trust his senses rather than someone else' "script". Every golfer should have a few lessons, no golfer should have a coach.

I'm sorry but this is so wrong I can't express how wrong it is. In a way, every golfer is a technician. Tiger has hit more creative shots in clutch situations than Bubba could ever dream of hitting. The list of great shots he has hit is pages long and his is due to his talent and creativity. Also, every golfer has good days and bad days. The golf swing is very hard to repeat . If it wasn't the most talented golfer would win every time. Also, look at golfers with great natural swings like Tom Purtzer. His swing was a thing of beauty. How many tournaments and majors did he win?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by FHopper

I love to watch a round with Tiger in it. I used to be in awe of his ability to bring spectators to the game of golf. He now is simply a run of the mill PGA representative. There are times when he is a good ambassador and times when he is not. I figured something out this weekend about my admiration for Tiger; I always thought he was gifted, he is not. He is a technician and nothing more. When his swing is "broken" he is done, he has nowhere to go. Bubba is gifted. The swing coach is the worst thing that has ever happened to golf and it has ruined Tiger. His tantrums are a logical result of his need to swing technically and failing. He should take the year off and hit the Billiards circuit to get some feel back and learn to trust his senses rather than someone else' "script". Every golfer should have a few lessons, no golfer should have a coach.

OMG you are so off base. He's not only gifted, he's a once in a generation player. Two-year olds don't get on the Mike Douglas show to hit balls with Bob Hope. Three straight US Am wins (never done before). And save me from going into his pro accomplishments. He has done more than any other player of the game with the exception of Jack having more major wins. You don't do what he's done without being gifted. Tell me how a non-gifted player hits a 200y 6-iron over water from a bunker on the last hole with a tournament on the line to 15 feet.

You may even have a valid point in there somewhere, but when you say Tiger's not gifted, your credibility is shot. I would suggest being a little more careful with your proclamations by limiting them to something that could, at the least, be debatable.

[Zeph]

And Bubba is gifted because of his one Masters win, 6 professional wins and a good shot on the 10th at Augusta? At the age of 33? Tiger won his first Masters by the age of 21.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by MSchott

I'm sorry but this is so wrong I can't express how wrong it is. In a way, every golfer is a technician. Tiger has hit more creative shots in clutch situations than Bubba could ever dream of hitting. The list of great shots he has hit is pages long and his is due to his talent and creativity. Also, every golfer has good days and bad days. The golf swing is very hard to repeat . If it wasn't the most talented golfer would win every time. Also, look at golfers with great natural swings like Tom Purtzer. His swing was a thing of beauty. How many tournaments and majors did he win?

Originally Posted by zipazoid

OMG you are so off base. He's not only gifted, he's a once in a generation player. Two-year olds don't get on the Mike Douglas show to hit balls with Bob Hope. Three straight US Am wins (never done before). And save me from going into his pro accomplishments. He has done more than any other player of the game with the exception of Jack having more major wins. You don't do what he's done without being gifted. Tell me how a non-gifted player hits a 200y 6-iron over water from a bunker on the last hole with a tournament on the line to 15 feet.

You may even have a valid point in there somewhere, but when you say Tiger's not gifted, your credibility is shot. I would suggest being a little more careful with your proclamations by limiting them to something that could, at the least, be debatable.

Agreed, labelling Tiger as a technician is a bit overstated and totally discounts everything he did up until 2009 (which was to hit seemingly one impossible shot after another).  However, as for his current play...many of the commentators (for better or worse) keep repeating that Tiger is obsessed with swing mechanics and "swinging the club" instead of "playing golf."  Maybe that's what was being referred to here.

[Zeph]

However, as for his current play...many of the commentators (for better or worse) keep repeating that Tiger is obsessed with swing mechanics and "swinging the club" instead of "playing golf."  Maybe that's what was being referred to here.

That's because he's got conflicting swings in his body at the moment. How do you change your swing without focusing on the technical components? You can't just tell Tiger to "go play golf" and his old Haney-swing magically goes away. It is the techincal stuff he has to focus on. He must keep working on his swing to get it ingrained. He's in a process (long one I might add) of changing his swing. At Bay Hill, he was able to stick to the new swing for the most of the time and won the event. He's been getting better all year long. At The Masters, his old swing started to re-surface and consequently left him unable to shoot under par all week long. The added pressure of it being The Masters and a major probably contributed a lot to what became his hybrid swing of old and new. We started to see his old swing patterns and errant shots. Pushes and pull-hooks. The Masters came too early in many ways. Both mentally and mechanically. He also worked a lot on his short game the weeks before The Masters. His takeaway on the short game got mixed into his full swing and he was off. Getting the arms high, dropping them deep and getting stuck. Swing path went way right and his two shots big misses were pushes and pull-hooks. A push when the clubface was somewhat aligned to the path and pull-hook when his clubface was closer to square or maybe even shut. Tiger finally put together four good rounds at Bay Hill, which was a first since his injury (except the Chevron). At Augusta, he wasn't able to put together a single round. He has to get back to practicing and probably playing more events than he traditionally has. I don't doubt for a second that he hits it well on his private course and at the range. He's known for a strong psyche, but once he gets into competition, other thoughts starts to creep in and his body reverts to old patterns. The more his subconscience thinks about it being an important tournament, the harder it is for him to stay focused. One can of course ask the question if he will ever get the old swing truly out of his system. He used that swing for a considerable amount of time. History suggests that changing your swing at that level can be very hard. Look at Padraig. It is of course difficult for everyone, but the pros struggle more since they've hit thousands of balls more than us with the old swing they want to get rid of. His old swing might show up every now and then in the future, but he must keep working to make the new swing stick in competition.

[clubchamp]

I'm not sure why this has turned into a big debate... Tiger has thrown tantrums in the past and like I've always said that's Tiger maybe some people want to believe that he's always a calm gentleman. I don't think differently of him when he does it but I just believe that is his personality and he gets a little too fired up sometimes.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by carrx

However, what bothers me most about Tiger here isn't the incident itself, but his apparently lack of real remorse for losing his cool.

You do know he apologized, right?

[bwdial]

When I look at the situation, I don't really care what four letter words he uses, if he throws his clubs or if he empties his bag into Rae's Creek.  What I see is a once great golfer who was the ultimate control freak, completely out of control.  Why do children, teenagers and full grown adults throw temper tantrums?  Mainly, because they feel a complete lack of control.  Right now, Tiger doesn't really have a handle on his game, so when things go wrong, he lets it wreck his day.  The old Tiger would have dropped an 'f' bomb and moved on.  Now that neatly compartmentalized life he was leading before November of 2010 is in total disarray.  His swing, short-game and putting is also in disarray, and he is letting it get the best of him.

[darkhunter139]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

I'm not sure why this has turned into a big debate... Tiger has thrown tantrums in the past and like I've always said that's Tiger maybe some people want to believe that he's always a calm gentleman. I don't think differently of him when he does it but I just believe that is his personality and he gets a little too fired up sometimes.

This is one of the reasons I like Tiger.

I really don't care if he kicked a few clubs.  Slamming the 3W into the tee box probably should not have been done but he knows that.

[carrx]

I saw his apology, which was noted in my initial post.  What irked me about it was his apparent lack of sincerity.  To paraphrase, he was sorry if his actions offended anybody, but he was just really frustrated.  The "I'm sorry if my actions offended anybody" statement is not an apology.  It's a clever way of saying "I'm sorry you have a problem with my actions", instead of acknowledging he shouldn't have behaved that way to begin with.

I'm a big fan of Tiger Woods and root for him; this definitely is not an "I hate Tiger Woods" rant.

I am probably expecting too much, but after watching a 21 year old Rory McIlroy stand and take questions with class after his final round 80 knocked him out of last year's Masters, Tiger's apparent lack of humility showed him in stark contrast.

Originally Posted by iacas

You do know he apologized, right?

[mchepp]

Wait, wait, Tiger played in the Masters? I never saw him.

Yeah I know it was a bad joke

But the real question is what happened mechanically between Bay Hill and Augusta? At Augusta we got last August Tiger. I think he was not comfortable hitting a draw with his new pattern. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Maybe the wrong thread, but discussing his temper is a waste of time. Golf is frustrating.