2012 British Open Discussion Thread

[onesome]

I can't say Adam Scott outright choked, he still made solid/good shots even after making bogies on earlier holes, the breaks just went against him at the wrong time, he didn't compound any of his errors with mental letdowns.

[brocks]

Tiger really with some bad luck there on 6. In his interview he told how he had no chance to play it out to the left and just tried to move it to the right part of the bunker.

Yup, it might have been an entirely different tournament if the ball had stopped about two feet farther from the riveted face. Tiger has played out of those bunkers amazingly well (he has been playing the much easier US bunkers very poorly this year) when he had any shot at all. If he had saved par on that hole, he probably wouldn't have felt compelled to start hitting drivers, which made him go into more bunkers/rough and resulted in three more bogeys. He still would have bogeyed nine, but with his four birdies he could have been -9 instead of -3. And look, -7 won. Ifs and buts, candy and nuts. [quote] Can you imagine if the wind was up all 4 days and a bit of rain, the winning score could have been +5. [/quote] That's exactly why I predicted +3 for the winning score in the contest. They were predicting showers and 25 mph winds for all four days. I see the average IQ of BBC reporters is about the same as for TGC reporters. One of them just asked Adam Scott whether he thought making four bogies in a row today hurt him. [quote name="walk18" url="/t/60403/2012-british-open-discussion-thread/288#post_746434"] Also, no way Adam Scott caused the ball to move earlier. It rolled away long after he had walked up to the green.[/quote] Actually, they said it moved a little bit seven seconds after he walked up, and then rolled a foot or two about five seconds later. I wouldn't call that "long after." The R&A; guy in the booth, who had seen the entire sequence, thought Scott should have been penalized. I'm wondering why some guy on his couch can call in and get a player DQ'd if he saw something an official didn't see, but an R&A; official who saw the whole thing can't radio down and get the score adjusted long before a player signs his card. But it turns out it wouldn't have mattered in the final scores -- he finished three shots better than Tiger and Sneds. No way to predict how it may have changed things if they had called it on the spot, though.

[brocks]

Too late to edit: I just watched a clip of Tiger's press conference, where he said he wasn't trying to get out of that bunker, he was just trying to ricochet if off the face to the right, so he could get it out with his next shot, but it went left instead. Makes no sense to me. If that were true, he could have taken an unplayable and dropped it where he wanted it in the bunker (within the limits on a line from the hole, or two club lengths no nearer the hole). Why try to bounce it off the face, with no telling where it ends up? So Azinger was right, sort of. Tiger should have taken an unplayable.

[onesome]

Too late to edit: I just watched a clip of Tiger's press conference, where he said he wasn't trying to get out of that bunker, he was just trying to ricochet if off the face to the right, so he could get it out with his next shot, but it went left instead. Makes no sense to me. If that were true, he could have taken an unplayable and dropped it where he wanted it in the bunker (within the limits on a line from the hole, or two club lengths no nearer the hole). Why try to bounce it off the face, with no telling where it ends up?

Valid point there, the only possible explanation was he stillwanted to leave the possibility of the ball getting out? Honestly didn't even see so that's just a guess.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by brocks

Too late to edit: I just watched a clip of Tiger's press conference, where he said he wasn't trying to get out of that bunker, he was just trying to ricochet if off the face to the right, so he could get it out with his next shot, but it went left instead. Makes no sense to me. If that were true, he could have taken an unplayable and dropped it where he wanted it in the bunker (within the limits on a line from the hole, or two club lengths no nearer the hole). Why try to bounce it off the face, with no telling where it ends up?

Because it would have likely buried if he had taken a drop.

I also think it has a little to do with BSing us too. We heard his conversation and Joey's and they didn't mention bouncing it IIRC.

[Zwick]

Originally Posted by brocks

Too late to edit: I just watched a clip of Tiger's press conference, where he said he wasn't trying to get out of that bunker, he was just trying to ricochet if off the face to the right, so he could get it out with his next shot, but it went left instead.

Makes no sense to me. If that were true, he could have taken an unplayable and dropped it where he wanted it in the bunker (within the limits on a line from the hole, or two club lengths no nearer the hole). Why try to bounce it off the face, with no telling where it ends up?

So Azinger was right, sort of. Tiger should have taken an unplayable.

In retrospective, the unplayable would have been the better option. But it would probably have been a burried lie after the drop, not exactly what you can get close to the flag out of these bunkers.

And I think he thought he could probably get it out with a bit of luck with his first shot.

And it really should have been a double bogey, he should have made the second putt.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by iacas

Because it would have likely buried if he had taken a drop.

I also think it has a little to do with BSing us too. We heard his conversation and Joey's and they didn't mention bouncing it IIRC.

I'd bet it was one of those, "I want it to go out, but if it doesn't, then it'll bounce to a better spot anyway," ideas. Sometimes the long-shot is a good option if the "miss" is no worse than taking the penalty stroke.

However, whenever I employ that strategy, I get about the same result. Somehow I always find something worse than what I thought was the worst that could happen.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Well done, Ernie. This is a popular win.

[jamo]

All I have to say is that I am glad Adam Scott lost. I can't stand that long putter crap. It takes away so much.

3 of the last 4 majors. I was rooting for Scott once Tiger was out of it. I've always been a fan of his, plus I liked the story of him finally breaking through more than I like the story of Ernie Els sneaking in a win well past his prime. That said, Ernie won that tournament. At one point well into the final round (I wrote it down in the chat after they said it on ESPN, if it mattered I could go back and find it), no one in the last 10 groups was under par. -2 on the round was impressive. I think Tiger made the correct play from that bunker. As has been said, a drop would have buried his ball at least partially, and he didn't really have an angle to go left of right. He gave himself a chance and got a bit unlucky.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by iacas

By our count they were 0 for 3 on their quick interpretations of the Rules today. Sad.

The most egregious one, IMO was when Snedeker pull hooked it into the trees on the front 9.  He hit a provisional.  Then when he went to ply the provisional they said that the ball had been found and that it was in such a bad spot he elected to play the provisional.  Obviously that could NOT have been the case because you NEVER get a choice of which of 2 balls to play.  Fortunately I was able to flip over to the International BBC feed where they knew what the rules are and what actually had happened.  They reported that he hadn't even looked for the ball, not that it had been found, as ESPN reported.  WE all know that if it had been found his only choices would have been to play it or declare it unplayable using one of the unplayable options  and that if he elected to replay from the previous spot (i.e., the tee) he would have had to hit a new tee shot, NOT use the provisional.

Originally Posted by iacas

Ernie uses a belly putter.

While I think the anchoring should be banned I don't feel as bad about it with Ernie because he changed to it as an older player.  Totally irrational on my part, but there it is.

Originally Posted by brocks

Random musings on the Open:

ESPN had Snedeker's score wrong for half an hour after he completed play. Even when the camera stayed focused on the course's official scoreboard as a backdrop, showing Sned at -3, the on-screen scoreboard kept showing him at -4. Very sloppy.

Apparently the wind was blowing hard in the broadcast booth, causing many unforced errors

Tiger only needs to find a couple shots a round to practically guarantee getting back to his career average of 5-6 wins per year, and 1 major per year. And Lord knows the shots are out there. Just getting his wedge shots up to average proximity would probably give him two shots a round.

Yeah, pretty amazing that struggling the way he was he still finished T3.  Do you know if he will move ahead of Lee or Rory in the World rankings?

Originally Posted by brocks

Too late to edit: I just watched a clip of Tiger's press conference, where he said he wasn't trying to get out of that bunker, he was just trying to ricochet if off the face to the right, so he could get it out with his next shot, but it went left instead.

Makes no sense to me. If that were true, he could have taken an unplayable and dropped it where he wanted it in the bunker (within the limits on a line from the hole, or two club lengths no nearer the hole). Why try to bounce it off the face, with no telling where it ends up?

So Azinger was right, sort of. Tiger should have taken an unplayable.

As iacas said, taking the unplayable would have resulted in another plugged lie.  I'm sure you know that Azinger was completely wrong about being to take an unplayable drop outside the bunker.  You would think that in a broadcast booth with former tour players and a rules officials on tap they would know the difference between the unplayable in a bunker rule and the casual water in a bunker rule.  I also don't remember so many mistakes about which shot a player was playing.  With Snedeker on 18, which you already pointed out, being a prime example.

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Well done, Ernie. This is a popular win.

Totally agree.  If Tiger could not win there is no one I'd rather see win than Ernie.  And no one I'd rather see lose than Stevie.  Too bad he had to take Adam down with him.  Stevie AND the broomstick was just too much bad karma for the golf gods to let pass.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Yeah, pretty amazing that struggling the way he was he still finished T3.  Do you know if he will move ahead of Lee or Rory in the World rankings?

I had similar thoughts this afternoon. He's playing conservatively and got some bad breaks and still finished at the top of the leaderboard in a major with a legitimate shot at winning had he put together a 4th round similar to his first 3. That's not bad for a B game.

The question I have now, though, is whether this is his B game any more. I hope not.... though it'd be hard to complain about this sort of result from any other golfer.

Originally Posted by turtleback

Totally agree.  If Tiger could not win there is no one I'd rather see win than Ernie.  And no one I'd rather see lose than Stevie.  Too bad he had to take Adam down with him.  Stevie AND the broomstick was just too much bad karma for the golf gods to let pass.

Agree here, too. While I had some sympathy for Williams being fired as it apparently went down, his behavior afterwards burned through that goodwill. Scott is fine with me (though I don't find him exciting enough that I really root for him, I just feel bad that he lost it like that), but I'd rather not see Williams go on to immediate glory at this point.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by jamo

I think Tiger made the correct play from that bunker. As has been said, a drop would have buried his ball at least partially, and he didn't really have an angle to go left of right. He gave himself a chance and got a bit unlucky.

He could have done what GMac did and chip it backwards to simply give himself an easier bunker shot.  If he does that, he probably makes bogey at worst.  He's really lucky it didn't cost him more, since that ball could have very easily hit him when it ricocheted back off the face of the bunker.

I'm going to make a bold prediction... LaCava and Woods are as good as done.  From what I could hear of the conversation, Tiger was prepared to make a different play, and Joe mentioned Oleson (sp?) making the shot Saturday.  There were a couple of other instances where it seemed like Tiger was less than thrilled with whatever advice he'd just been given.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by iacas

By our count they were 0 for 3 on their quick interpretations of the Rules today. Sad.

I have a very limited grasp of the rules, and even I thought they were 0-2 without referencing anything other than my own acquired knowledge over the past 2 years of playing/watching.  I was shocked that they thought Tiger could take an unplayable to a spot outside of the bunker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walk18

SO glad for Ernie. Well done!

Also, no way Adam Scott caused the ball to move earlier. It rolled away long after he had walked up to the green.

What caused it to move then?

Also, keep in mind that when watching the replay in slow motion, the ball actually moves a few seconds after Adam Scott takes his practice swing and is up towards the green.  It only moved slightly though.  And then when he is back and standing over it, it moves the 2nd time and rolls out.  I don't see any way Adam Scott could be "virtually certain" that he didn't cause the ball to move.  I would think that by definition, "virtual certainty" would require you to know what DID cause it to move if you did not.

Lastly, can anybody remember a worse shot down the stretch of a major than Graeme's 3w into the trees?  I think Furyk's shot was more respectable.

[newtogolf]

Anything is possible, but I think the conversations were strained because Tiger knew he was throwing away a shot at a Major.  Tiger was very frustrated by his play and the breaks he was getting.  Firing LaCava now would cause too many distractions with the end of the season so close.

Originally Posted by bwdial

He could have done what GMac did and chip it backwards to simply give himself an easier bunker shot.  If he does that, he probably makes bogey at worst.  He's really lucky it didn't cost him more, since that ball could have very easily hit him when it ricocheted back off the face of the bunker.

I'm going to make a bold prediction... LaCava and Woods are as good as done.  From what I could hear of the conversation, Tiger was prepared to make a different play, and Joe mentioned Oleson (sp?) making the shot Saturday.  There were a couple of other instances where it seemed like Tiger was less than thrilled with whatever advice he'd just been given.

[colin007]

Tiger, i swear to God if you don't win the PGA i don't know what I'm going to do...

[jamo]

He could have done what GMac did and chip it backwards to simply give himself an easier bunker shot.  If he does that, he probably makes bogey at worst.  He's really lucky it didn't cost him more, since that ball could have very easily hit him when it ricocheted back off the face of the bunker.

I don't have the tape, but at the time I remember being pretty sure that McDowell was a little bit farther from the lip. I'm not so sure that Tiger would have been able to get over that side lip (partially because it was high and partially because he was so close to the lip that as he moved his aiming point away from the green, the lip facing the green would come more into play during his backswing and downswing), and if the ball didn't get over that it would likely have travelled along the edge of the sod-facing and he would have had a similar or worse second shot from the bunker. [quote name="bwdial" url="/t/60403/2012-british-open-discussion-thread/300_30#post_746518"]I'm going to make a bold prediction... LaCava and Woods are as good as done.  From what I could hear of the conversation, Tiger was prepared to make a different play, and Joe mentioned Oleson (sp?) making the shot Saturday.  There were a couple of other instances where it seemed like Tiger was less than thrilled with whatever advice he'd just been given. [/quote] They did seem to be on different pages with the wind a few times, but I can't imagine Tiger and Stevie were locked in 100% of the time either, even in the dominant years.

[jshots]

I didn't want to read all the pages so this may have been said but... Iacas your prediction of someone under 40 winning was wrong!!! ha!

[mvmac]

Insert Caption.....

Originally Posted by colin007

Tiger, i swear to God if you don't win the PGA i don't know what I'm going to do...

Are you his agent?