Gross Misrepresentation of Truth

[iacas]

post script:  I would bet that the next thing you will hear( on other forums)  is that TST blocked this commentary because the owners were afraid of the competition or some similar nonsense.

Probably. But as I said I'm comfortable with the likely conclusion a third party will come to upon reading all of this stuff.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

Here is my conclusion: ...

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by cipher

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardGreening

Here is my conclusion: ...

Here's mine:

[Beachcomber]

I read his last post and didn't find anything wrong with it. I mean if you delete all his other post. And just read his last... Was he lying?

[Golfingdad]

I read his last post and didn't find anything wrong with it. I mean if you delete all his other post. And just read his last... Was he lying?

No posts have been deleted ... He just locked the other thread because it became nonsense. (If you're referring to Erik's comment ... He was saying he deleted his own post before he hit send ;))

[Beachcomber]

No posts have been deleted ... He just locked the other thread because it became nonsense. (If you're referring to Erik's comment ... He was saying he deleted his own post before he hit send ;))

I'm not talking about anyone deleting his post. Just saying... Read his last post as if it was his first post. While I don't agree with some of his conclusions with TGM within the post, his post wasn't terrible (although very long). So my statement was if you didn't read one of his post. But read his last, what was wrong with it? Did he lie in that last post? If so where? I thought he did a decent job of at least trying to show some 'meat' in his last post. So I dunno why the hate if you read the last post and CTRL + F4 all his other post on the board? I think his swing comparison was silly in the original post. But nothing to terminate the guy over?

[Zeph]

All the meat I've found is something about a long thumb. It's quite clear we're not getting anything useful out of this. Which is nothing more than I've come to expect from this kind of stuff. All they are interested in is advertising their brand and get people interested, so they will buy their products. We're all about discussing golf here, but there is nothing to discuss. You are effectively wasting a lot of people's time by writing about how you improved in 3 months, bla bla bla, but not saying anything about the actual swing. Only way to get somewhere would be if someone read the book or watched the videos. Someone who has not recently joined TST....

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Just saying... Read his last post as if it was his first post.

Why would we do that?  It's clear from the videos, comments that he doesn't want to seriously engage with other people on the site.  He'd rather take the opportunity to try and bash Erik and I and spam the site.  Giving these Dalton and his followers the benefit of the doubt ended a while ago.  The video in the first post was an attempt to discredit myself and 5SK.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

So I dunno why the hate if you read the last post and CTRL + F4 all his other post on the board? I think his swing comparison was silly in the original post. But nothing to terminate the guy over?

He's not "terminated", he's not banned, neither is Dalton.

[Hacker James]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Why would we do that?  It's clear from the videos, comments that he doesn't want to seriously engage with other people on the site.  He'd rather take the opportunity to try and bash Erik and I and spam the site.  Giving these Dalton and his followers the benefit of the doubt ended a while ago.  The video in the first post was an attempt to discredit myself and 5SK.

He's not "terminated", he's not banned, neither is Dalton.

unless its solely semantics, it sounds like banned    (see post 16). ,  not sure which "lies" were being referred to, but there were several misrepresentations  Totally agree that he/they will not engage with something substantive. The video was definitely in poor taste. In any event, time to move on.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Hacker James

unless its solely semantics, it sounds like banned    (see post 16). ,  not sure which "lies" were being referred to, but there were several misrepresentations  Totally agree that he/they will not engage with something substantive. The video was definitely in poor taste. In any event, time to move on.

Restricted from this thread not banned.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

No posts have been deleted ... He just locked the other thread because it became nonsense. (If you're referring to Erik's comment ... He was saying he deleted his own post before he hit send ;))

Technically I deleted my own post. I hit submit, then deleted, so that way it's "here" if I ever (99.9% chance I won't) want to make it available. That's the only deleted post in either of the threads, though.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Just saying... Read his last post as if it was his first post.

As you know, i f someone walks up to you and punches you in the face, but then lets you use his handkerchief to soak up the blood, that person is not a nice guy.

And neither Richard nor Dalton have done anything like give you their handkerchief. It's just a series of misrepresentations or outright mistruths or lies.

[Mr. Desmond]

Sharing.

That's what this board does.

And if you're getting ripped, Richard, it's because STG does not share.

For the purposes of this post, let's assume you want to think of golf boards/dvd's/training aids/facebook pages as sales. Then "what we have he'ah" is a difference in marketing philosophies. One philosophy is "the more you give, the more you get." People will do business with those who share with them in an open and honest manner.

The opposite of that marketing philosophy is to make promises and show results but give nothing. It is another way of doing business. But it is not a way of doing business on a golf board. If you want to sell in that way, STG, this is not the place to do it.

Selling is not the principal purpose of this board. It is to discuss all things golf and share.

You don't share.

__________

As to the OP, there is no evidence of anyone "ripping" the STG method. In fact, the one STG video posted in the other thread, while not a method, showed a "fix" that may work for a majority of amateurs. No one ripped it.

By posting in this this thread in the manner you have, Richard, you have given yourself away and revealed everything. Your purpose was to rip an owner of this site. That is disappointing. That is not we do here, whether you are an owner or a member.

[TJBam]

To the OP good looking swing.  I hope this thread can facilitate the discussion you're looking for but I'm afraid it just isn't there.

I started playing golf seriously in around March of this year.  I was probably a 24+HCP shooting in the low 100's.  The Sand Trap and also Mike and Erik's 5SK (FREE INFORMATION and free analysis of a swing) has helped me pursue the game and drop down to a 11, and I'm trending down to a 10.1 this month.  That is a big downward trend in strokes over 5 months, don't you think.

Could I have done that with your DVD set or swing kit or whatever you're selling?  Maybe.  Would it have been as enjoyable?  Probably not.  As an outside salesman, I can tell you that the product is an extension of the salesman.  If you want to know more about the product, just look at the folks that are selling it.  If you walked into my office as a vendor and brought your attitude with you, badmouthing my current vendor, I would laugh you out the door.  It is unprofessional.

There is nothing wrong with sharing.  Tell me the differences, tell me why your product has worked.  Show me.  Pictures, diagrams, etc.  It's the least you can do when you're selling a product to me.  A YouTube video with bits of mysterious text looks more like a 9/11 conspiracy video than a legitimate take on the golf swing.  But in all seriousness do not badmouth your competitors.  I am telling you that from one businessperson to another.  You won't last long.  And that is meant to come off as sincere as possible.

Erik and Mike are passionate about sharing their findings and have forged a path to a better golf game.  They help each person individually.  They are incredibly generous in their time and efforts to help the community become better golfers.  Come to think of it I need to make a donation to the site in the near future.

Cheers!

[dsc123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I'm not talking about anyone deleting his post.

Just saying... Read his last post as if it was his first post.

While I don't agree with some of his conclusions with TGM within the post, his post wasn't terrible (although very long). So my statement was if you didn't read one of his post. But read his last, what was wrong with it? Did he lie in that last post? If so where? I thought he did a decent job of at least trying to show some 'meat' in his last post.

So I dunno why the hate if you read the last post and CTRL + F4 all his other post on the board? I think his swing comparison was silly in the original post. But nothing to terminate the guy over?

Not to defend anyone or anything, but even his last post contained no substance.  He was trying to explain what the methods are and it took him 1000 words to say that Dalton changed his grip.

But his real offence, in my opinion, was his swiftboating of Mike.  He disparaged him in an unfair and misleading way comparing a drill to a full swing.  Mike handled it with his usual aplomb, but that's the sort of thing that someone might come across on youtube or on google searches and form a negative opinion for all the wrong reasons.  I've received some instruction from mike via evolver and that video really made me cringe.

Also, I had to press CTRL + F4 to see what you meant.  Then I had to re-write my post.

[WillR]

I really, really don't like people who lie. We don't ban people very often here, but if you lie - especially about me, Mike, or other members… that's too much.

Richard, you've lied. Dalton's lied. I'm tired of it. This doesn't serve any purpose except to advance your "victim" mentality, when we've gone out of our way to give you umpteen chances to share actual information.

The record will stand and I am comfortable with the conclusion a neutral third-party will reach should they visit these threads in the future.

It seems as though i cannot post on the other thread, but this one comes up as popular as ever. Either Mr Greening is telling lies or the owners plagiarised http://www.purestrike.com/. However, there is no harm in anybody assuming that 5 simple Keys is also the name of some other website too. After researching the world wide wonderful web, I have to point out that Mr Greening has not actually told a lie. He maybe has got the wrong end of the stick with 5 Simple keys. Maybe , the owner of this site will verify that people can easily be mis-represented when offering their personal view about 5 simple keys. After visiting Mr McCrary`s site and facebook page, I can (as an independent adjudicatory visitor) verify that they do not show any form of attacking any other method and are very welcoming to all visitors and even offer free lifetime membership of the E-academy. There is no mass advertising and hundreds of different methods - which, in my opinion confuses golfers even more. This whole charade is nothing more than a playground fight over who teaches the best golf. If I were to choose a camp that welcomes people openly and does not suffer foolish behavior, I would honestly not choose this website (namely Sandtrap and associates)

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by WillR

It seems as though i cannot post on the other thread, but this one comes up as popular as ever. Either Mr Greening is telling lies or the owners plagiarised http://www.purestrike.com/.However, there is no harm in anybody assuming that 5 simple Keys is also the name of some other website too.After researching the world wide wonderful web, I have to point out that Mr Greening has not actually told a lie. He maybe has got the wrong end of the stick with 5 Simple keys.Maybe , the owner of this site will verify that people can easily be mis-represented when offering their personal view about 5 simple keys.After visiting Mr McCrary`s site and facebook page, I can (as an independent adjudicatory visitor) verify that they do not show any form of attacking any other method and are very welcoming to all visitors and even offer free lifetime membership of the E-academy. There is no mass advertising and hundreds of different methods - which, in my opinion confuses golfers even more.This whole charade is nothing more than a playground fight over who teaches the best golf.If I were to choose a camp that welcomes people openly and does not suffer foolish behavior, I would honestly not choose this website (namely Sandtrap and associates)

I can agree that sometimes there are people on this site who are less than courteous and kind, however that is true for any web forum you will find. The majority of people on here can be very friendly and even if you have a disagreement with them over one subject they may be on your side in another. I have not found a better place to discuss and get help with golf for free anywhere.

[Zeph]

I wanted to get something to discuss here, so I went ahead and bought the DVD. Here is my review: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/products/straight-talking-golf-dvd-by-dalton-mccrary/reviews/4775]Don't waste your money. This DVD will hurt your swing.[/URL] Discussing the details in this DVD is almost useless, especially in this forum. If someone recommended something similar to what Dalton does in this DVD, in this forum, he'd get shut down so fast and so hard, I would almost feel sorry for the guy. I can only assume that the reviews on the website linked somewhere in this or the other thread is fake, or written by people that are completely oblivious to the golf swing and doesn't have anywhere near the knowledge you'd need to review such a product. If you look closely on the video Richard provided, you can see the early release from the top. The poor quality means you won't see the shaft a lot on the downswing, but you can tell it's released early.

[Mr. Desmond]

It seems as though i cannot post on the other thread, but this one comes up as popular as ever. Either Mr Greening is telling lies or the owners plagiarised [URL=http://www.purestrike.com/.However]http://www.purestrike.com/.However[/URL], there is no harm in anybody assuming that 5 simple Keys is also the name of some other website too.After researching the world wide wonderful web, I have to point out that Mr Greening has not actually told a lie. He maybe has got the wrong end of the stick with 5 Simple keys.Maybe , the owner of this site will verify that people can easily be mis-represented when offering their personal view about 5 simple keys.After visiting Mr McCrary`s site and facebook page, I can (as an independent adjudicatory visitor) verify that they do not show any form of attacking any other method and are very welcoming to all visitors and even offer free lifetime membership of the E-academy. There is no mass advertising and hundreds of different methods - which, in my opinion confuses golfers even more.This whole charade is nothing more than a playground fight over who teaches the best golf.If I were to choose a camp that welcomes people openly and does not suffer foolish behavior, I would honestly not choose this website (namely Sandtrap and associates)

Well, this is not a law firm. The name is www.thesandtrap.com