Pace Problem

[billchao]

  On 10/6/2019 at 2:38 PM, phillyk said:

The reason most of them play slowly is golf is social hour.  Somebody hits, the make fun of them, BS, or whatever, then two minutes later the next guy goes.

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I disagree. You can socialize and still play fast, right @David in FL?

Slow groups play slowly because they don't understand how to split off on carts to have multiple players get ready for their shot simultaneously, take too much time to hit a shot regardless of what their preshot routine is, or just move slowly in general. Lots of golfers out there with absolutely no sense of urgency just meander around with no consideration of how their actions affect other people.

I played yesterday behind a group that mulled over every putt like it was to win the Master's (even on tap-ins) and one of the carts sat next to the green on every hole they finished (presumably to fill out their scorecard for their match or whatever) instead of driving off and doing whatever it was they were doing on the next tee box.

[David in FL]

  On 10/6/2019 at 7:43 PM, billchao said:

I disagree. You can socialize and still play fast, right @David in FL?

Slow groups play slowly because they don't understand how to split off on carts to have multiple players get ready for their shot simultaneously, take too much time to hit a shot regardless of what their preshot routine is, or just move slowly in general. Lots of golfers out there with absolutely no sense of urgency just meander around with no consideration of how their actions affect other people.

I played yesterday behind a group that mulled over every putt like it was to win the Master's (even on tap-ins) and one of the carts sat next to the green on every hole they finished (presumably to fill out their scorecard for their match or whatever) instead of driving off and doing whatever it was they were doing on the next tee box.

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Yep!

 I swear I’m going to start a golf cart driving school and certification course. Golf courses shouldn’t let you drive a cart until you can show them that you completed my course!  I’ll take 20 to 30 minutes off most player’s rounds almost immediately!  

 Our normal Friday afternoon 5-some played in 3:25 this past Friday.  That’s playing 3 separate games within the group with 2-down presses, so we care about our play.  We didn’t catch them, but we never lost sight of the 2-some ahead of us.

 

[FlyingAce]

I am having pace issues with a friend lately. Been playing with him on weekends for the last 2 seasons. He started taking lessons this year and agreed to let the coach completely change his swing. Since then, he’s been struggling - shanking, hooking, etc. We used to play 18 in 3:30, but now the same 3some will take at least 4:30. My husband and I played as a twosome today and finished in 3 hrs without rushing and it was very enjoyable. I don’t know how to get my friend to play a little faster so I don’t have to waste time waiting for him!

Edited October 6, 2019 by FlyingAce

[colin007]

  On 10/6/2019 at 8:59 PM, FlyingAce said:

I am having pace issues with a friend lately. Been playing with him on weekends for the last 2 seasons. He started taking lessons this year and agreed to let the coach completely change his swing. Since then, he’s been struggling - shanking, hooking, etc. We used to play 18 in 3:30, but now the same 3some will take at least 4:30. My husband and I played as a twosome today and finished in 3 hrs without rushing and it was very enjoyable. I don’t know how to get my friend to play a little faster so I don’t have to waste time waiting for him!

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So is he playing worse than he used to when you played in 3:30? Or he's playing better but more slowly?

[FlyingAce]

  On 10/6/2019 at 9:06 PM, colin007 said:

So is he playing worse than he used to when you played in 3:30? Or he's playing better but more slowly?

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Yes, worse. Because he is hitting less distance and missing more shots. And taking longer for pre-shot routines. His lessons are not working.

[Double Mocha Man]

Just a thought:  It should be mandatory that your golf pro, while teaching, throw in some questions about your pace of play.  He/she could throw in a tip or two at no charge.  Like my kid's pediatrician who does all the usual checkup stuff, prodding and poking, then asks at the end of the session if there are any guns in the house.  He's broadened the scope of things but is looking out for issues in the bigger picture.

[Cartboy]

  On 10/6/2019 at 2:57 PM, Marty2019 said:

  It takes a lot longer to play 100 shots than it does to play 70. 

 

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I dunno . . . I can shoot 100 in three hours pretty easy.

😀

After 13 years in this business, I've decided we can ruminate all we want, and do whatever we think will help, and slow golfers will always play slow and fast golfers will always play fast.

Everyone I play with the first time says at least once during the round, "You sure play fast."  I always answer, "Yeah, normally everyone is still talking when I hit."

If everyone's shut up. I know I took to long.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Cartboy

[Cartboy]

  On 10/6/2019 at 8:59 PM, FlyingAce said:

 He started taking lessons this year and agreed to let the coach completely change his swing. Since then, he’s been struggling - shanking, hooking, etc.

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My swing/grip/etc. was so unorthodox that I have always been afraid that would happen.  I never wanted anyone to try to fix it.

Then, a couple years ago an older guy I play with suggested something very do-able when we were on the range.  Starting with the high school golf team, I've been playing for 55 year, and my ghin-dex has dropped five in the last two.  I was a regular 90-95 and my last two rounds were 83.

[TRUCKER]

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

[Vinsk]

  On 10/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, TRUCKER said:

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

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Happens way too often. ‘ oh if I catch it solid...’ Maddening.

[David in FL]

  On 10/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, TRUCKER said:

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

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  On 10/8/2019 at 10:43 AM, Vinsk said:

Happens way too often. ‘ oh if I catch it solid...’ Maddening.

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And as a reminder, just because you hear a ball land 45 yards behind you doesn’t mean that you’ve been “hit into” by the group following...

 

[FlyingAce]

  On 10/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, TRUCKER said:

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

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This still happens all the time at my private cc. And those who really should be playing the forward tees needs a reality check. We got lots of those who could barely drive past the forward tee box (and still play from the tips) playing every weekend. They are usually the ones who wait for the greens to clear before hitting their 2nd shots from 300yds away...

Edited October 8, 2019 by FlyingAce

[ghalfaire]

  On 10/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, TRUCKER said:

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

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  On 10/8/2019 at 10:43 AM, Vinsk said:

Happens way too often. ‘ oh if I catch it solid...’ Maddening.

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Having just played a 4.5 hour round in 95 degree heat yesterday I can understand your frustration.  But having been hit by a golf ball on fly ending up in the hospital with blood clots in my leg a few years back, I am not sympathetic.  How about it isn't worth taking a chance on doing another golfer permanent damage so you can save 30 seconds on your round? 

I do share your frustration on slow play.  The folks I play with usually finish a round in 10 to 20 minutes under 4 hours.  Not real fast but not a bad pace either.  IMO slow play is caused from a variety of factors and more complex than just "slow players", although I concur that is part of the problem.  But it just isn't worth taking a chance on hurting someone to save a few second/minutes of time.

BTW  I belong to a private CC and slow play isn't limited to public course.

[DaveP043]

  On 10/8/2019 at 2:53 AM, TRUCKER said:

If all you stupid idiots would stop waiting for the green to clear so you can hit your 3 wood 215 yards when you're 250 yards away that would help. Had some ass hat at USKIDS tournament yesterday back up the whole tournament because he hit his drive 235ish yards, and then somehow thought he could hit his 3 wood 280 yards from the rough onto the green. 5 grown men to stupid figure it out. That's why I joined a private cc.

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There may be better ways to phrase this, other than intentionally insulting people.  And why are 5 grown men responsible to decide when someone at a USKIDS event should play?  But yes, this is one of many practices that helps to cause slow play.  And for better or worse, this DOES happen at private clubs too.

There may also be better ways to demonstrate your own literacy, or lack of it.  I'm pretty sure you meant "too stupid to figure it out"

[Vinsk]

  On 10/8/2019 at 1:55 PM, ghalfaire said:

How about it isn't worth taking a chance on doing another golfer permanent damage so you can save 30 seconds on your round? 

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Sorry for your accident, but you’re wrong. I’m talking about when there is no chance. And any reasonable golfer should know if it’s safe to hit. 30 seconds? Waiting for a group to clear a green takes a lot more than  30 seconds. Again I’m sorry you were hit but that’s not gonna work in this case.

[Patch]

We had our league's quarterly meeting yesterday evening. This is where we league members, the home owners surrounding the course, maybe someone from city hall, and the course managers discuss all things golf related. The meeting involve 3 courses. 

One item that came up was slow play. I am not going to get into all the conversation that went on about this topic, but the city guy, and course managers brought up a legal issue.

Seems a foursome of older gentlemen were golfing a little on the slow side. The course's  (not ours') marshall got after the group to speed it up, that they were holding up others. 

The foursome did hurry up. The sped up so much, that one of their group had a fatal heart attack. Did speeding up cause the heart attack? Who knows. 

I don't know all the particulars, but basically the guy's family is suing the golf course. They are claiming the course's marshal took the group out of their playing comfort zone, and the extra "urgency" to speed up, caused undue stress on the guy, which helped to cause the heart attack. Undue stress on what is considered a leisurely past time. 

Our course, based on this situation, is taking a different look at slower play. (They don't want a similar lawsuit. No course would) They are going to revise how they handle the issue. My guess is they are going to do less enforcement on speeding up play to avoid any possible legal issues. 

They asked the group in attendence how many times, while golfing, did slower play actually cause them a problem. The surprising overall response from the group was "not that often, and usually only on a few weekends". In other words not a big deal to this group. 

Granted, in the grand scheme of golfdom, this was a very isolated, small group of responses. 

Myself, golfing year around,  I might see slow play 4, or 5 times a year. Slow enough to where I notice it, and it has to be really slow for me to notice. Then again, I rarely play during the busier weekend tee times.. When I do see it, it most likely going to be at a golf destination resort. 

[DeadMan]

I don't think waiting on the green to clear to go for a par 5 in 2 is that big of a problem. Yes, it's annoying watching a golfer top it 50 yards from 280 yards out. But waiting for a green to clear to go for it in 2 isn't going to slow many people down, if everybody is playing correctly. That bold part is really the key problem with the situation, and with slow play in general.

If you have someone going for the green in 2, waiting for it to clear, what are the other players doing?

• Are they standing around the guy going for it in two?
• Or have they advanced up the fairway, (safely) getting in position to play their 3rd shot?

If the other players are doing it correctly, they should be ready to hit their 3rd shot once the guy waiting for the green to clear hits his shot. They can't hit their approach shots until the green clears anyway.

So yeah, you might be able to hit your tee shot 30 seconds earlier with the guy laying up instead. But you might just end up waiting on them to hit their 3rd shots as you're sitting in the fairway instead.

I get that it's nice to be annoyed at the doofus who thinks he can get to the green from 280 or something, but the problem isn't necessarily that doofus. The problem is slow players.

[Vinsk]

  On 10/8/2019 at 3:26 PM, DeadMan said:

If you have someone going for the green in 2, waiting for it to clear, what are the other players doing?

• Are they standing around the guy going for it in two?
• Or have they advanced up the fairway, (safely) getting in position to play their 3rd shot?

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Yeah...good call.