Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[Chief Oceola]

So when Tiger was focused and throwing a clubs, "cussed", etc people complain ... When he obviously accepts to some degree he screwed it up and laughs, people complain ... I see a no-win for the guy ... Perhaps by laughing he knows there are things bigger than golf ...

I think the laughing is a defense mechanism.

[ScouseJohnny]

Could not agree more, who the heck does TW think he is laughing after this round?! He did the same thing after shooting 80 at the US open. The old Tiger would be looking for things to take out his anger on. As a Tiger fan the way he is acting after thsee rounds pisses me off.

Who the heck does he think he is? A private individual, playing in a golf tournament, reacting to his own performance however he chooses. He doesn't owe anything to anybody, with the possible exception of his sponsors - to whom I'd say he's simply obligated to show up and try his best. I have no doubt he's trying his best.

Look, being a "fan" of a particular golfer isn't like supporting a football team. I'm a massive Liverpool FC fan, a team which has just had, it has to be said, a disappointing season. If I thought the manager and players didn't care about that poor season, or were caught on camera laughing about a heavy defeat, then yes, I'd be annoyed, because a football team carries the support of its fans stretching way back into its history, and also represents the city or area in which it is founded, and the people of that city who are its fans. An individual golfer is just out on the course trying to win a tournament for himself. You can be a "fan" of his, and be rooting for him to win, but he hasn't let you down if he under-performs, or doesn't (publicly) act in a way that acknowledges your disappointment at his lack of success.

[Abu3baid]

Who the heck does he think he is? A private individual, playing in a golf tournament, reacting to his own performance however he chooses. He doesn't owe anything to anybody, with the possible exception of his sponsors - to whom I'd say he's simply obligated to show up and try his best. I have no doubt he's trying his best. Look, being a "fan" of a particular golfer isn't like supporting a football team. I'm a massive Liverpool FC fan, a team which has just had, it has to be said, a disappointing season. If I thought the manager and players didn't care about that poor season, or were caught on camera laughing about a heavy defeat, then yes, I'd be annoyed, because a football team carries the support of its fans stretching way back into its history, and also represents the city or area in which it is founded, and the people of that city who are its fans. An individual golfer is just out on the course trying to win a tournament for himself. You can be a "fan" of his, and be rooting for him to win, but he hasn't let you down if he under-performs, or doesn't (publicly) act in a way that acknowledges your disappointment at his lack of success.

I have to disagree with the sentiment above.. I see no difference between the die hard soccer fan or the die hard golfer / tiger fan.. Your distinction of the two is mind boggling in terms of logic.. So because this is an individual sport and the other is a team one you somehow feel that the "fan" should feel differently? The soccer team represents the town or whatever, what if for the tiger fan he represents the whole country in his mind? Fans are usually delusional no matter what the sport is a team one or not.. Boxing fans who feel a boxer could have done better, figure skating fan (if one exists) and a plethora of other "sports" race car included.. If you follow @tiger19 posts you will realize he might be more of a tiger fan than you are liver pool fan... Trust me ;)

[ScouseJohnny]

I have to disagree with the sentiment above.. I see no difference between the die hard soccer fan or the die hard golfer / tiger fan.. Your distinction of the two is mind boggling in terms of logic.. So because this is an individual sport and the other is a team one you somehow feel that the "fan" should feel differently? The soccer team represents the town or whatever, what if for the tiger fan he represents the whole country in his mind?

Fans are usually delusional no matter what the sport is a team one or not.. Boxing fans who feel a boxer could have done better, figure skating fan (if one exists) and a plethora of other "sports" race car included..

If you follow @tiger19 posts you will realize he might be more of a tiger fan than you are liver pool fan... Trust me ;)

I think there is a sort of sociological idea of collectivism in supporting a football team - a unity or shared identity between its fans, if you will. Even though I live in the US these days, if I walked into a bar and saw someone wearing an LFC shirt (and yes, it does happen), I'd stop and talk to them. For the most part, that's a good thing, although the history of soccer has shown, however, that it is important to keep things in perspective - in order that this does not spill over into actual tribalism, so entrenched is this idea of collectively supporting a team. I accept your point about the fanaticism of sports fans, but ultimately, with golfers, you are only ever talking about one individual, with the natural limitations imposed on the duration of his career. It's always going to be a short-lived period of being a fan. I always loved watching Faldo win back in the day, but I'd feel a bit silly coming on this board today and shouting, "Come on Nick, concentrate, you can be there on Sunday..."

The only parallel I would see between supporting a golfer and supporting a team would be, in answer to your point about "representing [a] whole country," the Ryder Cup or a similar competition. But under those circumstances even the most die-hard Tiger fan isn't supporting Tiger Woods for those few days, he's supporting a player contributing to the collective endeavours of the US team.

[tiger19]

I have to disagree with the sentiment above.. I see no difference between the die hard soccer fan or the die hard golfer / tiger fan.. Your distinction of the two is mind boggling in terms of logic.. So because this is an individual sport and the other is a team one you somehow feel that the "fan" should feel differently? The soccer team represents the town or whatever, what if for the tiger fan he represents the whole country in his mind? Fans are usually delusional no matter what the sport is a team one or not.. Boxing fans who feel a boxer could have done better, figure skating fan (if one exists) and a plethora of other "sports" race car included.. If you follow @tiger19 posts you will realize he might be more of a tiger fan than you are liver pool fan... Trust me ;)

Roger that! Lol.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

Who the heck does he think he is? A private individual, playing in a golf tournament, reacting to his own performance however he chooses. He doesn't owe anything to anybody, with the possible exception of his sponsors - to whom I'd say he's simply obligated to show up and try his best. I have no doubt he's trying his best.

Look, being a "fan" of a particular golfer isn't like supporting a football team. I'm a massive Liverpool FC fan, a team which has just had, it has to be said, a disappointing season. If I thought the manager and players didn't care about that poor season, or were caught on camera laughing about a heavy defeat, then yes, I'd be annoyed, because a football team carries the support of its fans stretching way back into its history, and also represents the city or area in which it is founded, and the people of that city who are its fans. An individual golfer is just out on the course trying to win a tournament for himself. You can be a "fan" of his, and be rooting for him to win, but he hasn't let you down if he under-performs, or doesn't (publicly) act in a way that acknowledges your disappointment at his lack of success.

I have to disagree with the sentiment above.. I see no difference between the die hard soccer fan or the die hard golfer / tiger fan.. Your distinction of the two is mind boggling in terms of logic.. So because this is an individual sport and the other is a team one you somehow feel that the "fan" should feel differently? The soccer team represents the town or whatever, what if for the tiger fan he represents the whole country in his mind?

Fans are usually delusional no matter what the sport is a team one or not.. Boxing fans who feel a boxer could have done better, figure skating fan (if one exists) and a plethora of other "sports" race car included..

If you follow @tiger19 posts you will realize he might be more of a tiger fan than you are liver pool fan... Trust me ;)

And so are anti-fans.

[ChrisP]

Another thing I noticed is there just doesn't seem to be much of a chemistry between Woods and LaCava. I've always been a critic Tiger dumping Stevie...I've always said and still hold it was a bad decision because Stevie was really good with Tiger in moments like this. They had great chemistry, they had great banter between them and I think it's pretty obvious Stevie is a hell of a caddie....The only time Adam Scott competes in tournaments anymore is when Stevie is on his bag. He's contending this week as well. If you think that's a coincidence, you're delusional. And I'm not saying LaCava's a bad caddie, but there's more to caddying than knowing the greens and knowing the yardages. It's also a lot about chemistry and the way you work together. I don't know the relationship between the two, but just watching them, it looks bland to me. Nothing like what you see from Spieth and Geller who have amazing chemistry.

[Yukari]

Another thing I noticed is there just doesn't seem to be much of a chemistry between Woods and LaCava. I've always been a critic Tiger dumping Stevie...I've always said and still hold it was a bad decision because Stevie was really good with Tiger in moments like this. They had great chemistry, they had great banter between them and I think it's pretty obvious Stevie is a hell of a caddie....The only time Adam Scott competes in tournaments anymore is when Stevie is on his bag. He's contending this week as well. If you think that's a coincidence, you're delusional. And I'm not saying LaCava's a bad caddie, but there's more to caddying than knowing the greens and knowing the yardages. It's also a lot about chemistry and the way you work together. I don't know the relationship between the two, but just watching them, it looks bland to me. Nothing like what you see from Spieth and Geller who have amazing chemistry.

+1. With Stevie, Tiger was much more relaxed and at the same time more focused. I don't see that with LaCava. Caddies are also suppose to be a psychologist and a cheerleader. Stevie was great at pumping up Tiger at appropriate time. LaCava seems to be just tag along.

[boogielicious]

Another thing I noticed is there just doesn't seem to be much of a chemistry between Woods and LaCava. I've always been a critic Tiger dumping Stevie...I've always said and still hold it was a bad decision because Stevie was really good with Tiger in moments like this. They had great chemistry, they had great banter between them and I think it's pretty obvious Stevie is a hell of a caddie....The only time Adam Scott competes in tournaments anymore is when Stevie is on his bag. He's contending this week as well. If you think that's a coincidence, you're delusional. And I'm not saying LaCava's a bad caddie, but there's more to caddying than knowing the greens and knowing the yardages. It's also a lot about chemistry and the way you work together. I don't know the relationship between the two, but just watching them, it looks bland to me. Nothing like what you see from Spieth and Geller who have amazing chemistry.

There was chemistry two years ago when Woods won 5 times.

[ChrisP]

There was chemistry two years ago when Woods won 5 times.

I disagree. I didn't see it. I remember commenting to my friend two years ago even during Tiger's winning run that Tiger doesn't seem to get along as well with LaCava as he did Stevie. LaCava looks more like "he's just there. He does his homework, gives his advice and hands him the club." More business-like. Stevie looked more actively involved in talking to him and getting involved on his shots, and maybe that's why Tiger dumped him....Stevie would disagree with him and try to talk him into different clubs. I think Stevie was to Tiger like Greller is to Spieth.

[MSchott]

I disagree. I didn't see it. I remember commenting to my friend two years ago even during Tiger's winning run that Tiger doesn't seem to get along as well with LaCava as he did Stevie. LaCava looks more like "he's just there. He does his homework, gives his advice and hands him the club." More business-like. Stevie looked more actively involved in talking to him and getting involved on his shots, and maybe that's why Tiger dumped him....Stevie would disagree with him and try to talk him into different clubs. I think Stevie was to Tiger like Greller is to Spieth.

The point is that chemistry is far overblown between a caddie and player. The caddie does not hit the ball or coach the swing. Golf is all about the golfer and not the caddie. Tiger's swing is the issue, not his chemistry with LaCava. And none of Tiger's caddies, not Stevie, not Fluff needed to massage his ego.

[mmoan2]

Anyone else see this. Thought it was mildly humorous.

https://medium.com/sportspickle/tiger-woods-fires-swing-coach-charles-barkley-6ad71c356392

[mmoan2]

I disagree. I didn't see it. I remember commenting to my friend two years ago even during Tiger's winning run that Tiger doesn't seem to get along as well with LaCava as he did Stevie. LaCava looks more like "he's just there. He does his homework, gives his advice and hands him the club." More business-like. Stevie looked more actively involved in talking to him and getting involved on his shots, and maybe that's why Tiger dumped him....Stevie would disagree with him and try to talk him into different clubs. I think Stevie was to Tiger like Greller is to Spieth.

I remember when Woods was hanging out in the clubhouse waiting to see if Sergio would beat him at the Player's in 2013, when he realized that he would be the winner, he turned to La Cava and said "Pretty cool, huh?" and high fived him. La Cava looked like he didn't know how to react. The chemistry between the two on national TV struck a nerve with me as forced. I'm sure I'm reading into it too much, but I remember getting this same feeling. I'm starting to wonder if at one point in time Woods had people around him - Earl, Butch, Stevie - who made him better. Now, Tiger seems to be flying solo with what he wants to do. He's a 39 year-old father of two, so he gets to do that, but Como, La Cava are just there to support Tiger in doing what he wants. They're less active participants. I don't think Tiger Woods is learning a new swing from Chris Como, he's just working with Como to reinforce what he feels he needs to do for himself. I got the impression that Butch Harmon was a teacher in the true sense of the word. Tiger followed his advice to learn. There's this hour-long special from 2000 where Butch and Tiger explained to a host what they were working on, and it was clear that Butch MADE Tiger do things, like a college coach would. Just some thoughts.

[ChrisP]

The point is that chemistry is far overblown between a caddie and player. The caddie does not hit the ball or coach the swing. Golf is all about the golfer and not the caddie. Tiger's swing is the issue, not his chemistry with LaCava. And none of Tiger's caddies, not Stevie, not Fluff needed to massage his ego.

I disagree. I don't think it's overblown at all. I think a lot of players will tell you it's important. Within the last month I've heard interviews from Jordan Spieth and Zach Johnson who said its vital. And I gaurantee you Adam Scott will tell you the same thing. I think in some ways it can be no big deal, but when a player is down and struggling, it can play a huge factor.

[mvmac]

Could not agree more, who the heck does TW think he is laughing after this round?! He did the same thing after shooting 80 at the US open. The old Tiger would be looking for things to take out his anger on. As a Tiger fan the way he is acting after thsee rounds pisses me off.

After a bad round I remember the old Tiger doing the same thing, laughing it off. He's always been more serious after his good rounds.

[Zeph]

Cool visual of the low punchy iron from Rickie.

[ChrisP]

After a bad round I remember the old Tiger doing the same thing, laughing it off. He's always been more serious after his good rounds.

The only time I remember it was the 02 Open and he did so because he knew there was nothing he could do that day. Sometimes he'd do it too if he was out of contention. But I also remember many a day he would not even talk to the media he was so pissed. I do think all ridicule at him he needs to listen to and use it as motivation. Joe Buck cracked last month everyone is laughing at him. You had Azinger hard on him. The AARP is making jokes. If it's not fueling his fire, nothing will.

[Spitfisher]

The point is that chemistry is far overblown between a caddie and player. The caddie does not hit the ball or coach the swing. Golf is all about the golfer and not the caddie. Tiger's swing is the issue, not his chemistry with LaCava. And none of Tiger's caddies, not Stevie, not Fluff needed to massage his ego.

I believe there is chemistry and has to be. Oh sure it can come and go but the success is not just the player, the caddy often keeps him in the game and concentrated on the shot at hand.  Caddies do far more work than what you see on TV.

Thats said I wonder if some thoughts are starting to creep in with LaCava,,,,,like " jeez when is he going to at least get a top 10 or make the cut?"