TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes!

[RandallT]

Seems to me that for those that are opposed to various experiments like this, there will courses that do not participate in these kinds of ideas, for various reasons, so there's no reason to worry that golf will now be a different beast. There's nothing wrong with a whole bunch of courses being experimental while times are tough in the sport- especially the lower-end municipal courses or executive courses. I'd love to see them gin up as much excitement and experimentation as possible, if that means tweaking the holes, fine. Keep things new and fresh with various promotions. Anything to make the game fun, faster, and with less barrier to entry. Hopefully lower costs would be a part of that, if they can bring in enough new people to make it work financially.

The game of golf will ultimately be the same at the highest levels, and for those of us interested in measuring our progress against the true rules of golf, playing rounds on courses where we can track official handicaps will likely be easily achieved. I'd probably shift my practice rounds to any non-standard courses, rather than use a driving range, if the price were right. It's more fun to practice on a course than at a range. If that course were catering to beginners, I think it'd also be fun to go there and join folks just starting out and play with them to teach them about what the differences are when they get to the higher-end courses. If you're at a course like that, I'd bet that the atmosphere will probably be more relaxed and about learning. If that lowers the barriers for entry into the sport, and if it can be made financially workable, it's a good thing.

[turtleback]

Yes, i see that now. Is this enough? I suppose they could put tiny rakes around the cup to let golfers finishing up make sure no plastic shows?

So much for this speeding up play.  We'll have to rake the bunkers AND the hole.  LOL

[newtogolf]

Big holes are not "game improvement" devices.  They are devices to get people to have fun on a golf course and play more.

I agree that nothing worth doing is easy, but I have the luxury of time: no kids and an understanding (and encouraging) girlfriend.  I can see people who want to play but can't play/practice often enough to make the game fun for them.  Big holes might get them on a course and they might come back more often.

We could also let them throw the ball instead of hitting it with a club.   Softball is a derivative of baseball that was developed for women and then expanded to men who no longer could or wished to play traditional baseball.  People playing I don't think being a good slow pitch softball player helps prepare anyone to hit a fast pitch curve ball in baseball.  Softball is softball, baseball is baseball, I'm not sure softball is considered a gateway sport to baseball.

This isn't directed at you, but if we have to contort the rules, equipment and course then we're not really promoting golf, we're promoting a new game that is played on a golf course.  If the goal is to protect the investments of the golf course owners then I think that's okay.  If the goal is keep course courses open then why not also set up Disc golf baskets in the flags and let people play disc golf on the courses too?

[Golfingdad]

I like that idea. Just do it one day a week and not the ridiculously large 15" cups.

Softball is softball, baseball is baseball, I'm not sure softball is considered a gateway sport to baseball.

Not sure why I didn't think of this before now, but once I read jshots "once a week" comment, I thought of a perfect bowling analogy.

Not bumper bowling, which is really just for the kids, but "no-tap" bowling.  No-tap bowling is a slight variation of regular bowling where 9 pins also counts as a strike.  Nothing else changes, but anytime you knock down 9, the computer considers it a strike, sweeps out the last pin and goes to the next frame.  Any other shot is played normally.

Most people prefer regular bowling, however, there are enough people that prefer no-tap that there are once-a-month tournaments.  Several of the people who play in the tournaments, also play in regular leagues and they are about to start a weekly no-tap league.

It's not really replacing regular bowling, and it's not a gateway to the regular game, but it does allow people to score higher than they normally would by eliminating the frustration of picking up 10-pins.

It's just plain fun.  On occasion.

[iacas]

We could also let them throw the ball instead of hitting it with a club.   Softball is a derivative of baseball that was developed for women and then expanded to men who no longer could or wished to play traditional baseball.  People playing I don't think being a good slow pitch softball player helps prepare anyone to hit a fast pitch curve ball in baseball.  Softball is softball, baseball is baseball, I'm not sure softball is considered a gateway sport to baseball.

This isn't directed at you, but if we have to contort the rules, equipment and course then we're not really promoting golf, we're promoting a new game that is played on a golf course.  If the goal is to protect the investments of the golf course owners then I think that's okay.  If the goal is keep course courses open then why not also set up Disc golf baskets in the flags and let people play disc golf on the courses too?

Poppycock and baloney.

My wife and kid began playing by teeing the ball up, throwing it when they wanted, stopping playing a hole when they were bored, taking side trips to see if there were any frogs in the pond, and just doing whatever they would find enjoyable.

Most people roll the ball in the fairways, take mulligans, etc.

Both my wife and kid - and those people who "contort the rules" - would have told you that they were still playing golf. They gained an appreciation for the game and "moved up" to playing it more seriously.

And that's not even including SNAG…

P.S. Some courses do have disc golf courses on the property. Because the holes are often 250-500 FEET instead of yards, and because wide open spaces aren't great, it's generally not done because there are very real safety concerns. A disc golfer is not going to walk 7500 yards amongst wide open areas.

[newtogolf]

Poppycock and baloney.

My wife and kid began playing by teeing the ball up, throwing it when they wanted, stopping playing a hole when they were bored, taking side trips to see if there were any frogs in the pond, and just doing whatever they would find enjoyable.

Most people roll the ball in the fairways, take mulligans, etc.

Both my wife and kid - and those people who "contort the rules" - would have told you that they were still playing golf. They gained an appreciation for the game and "moved up" to playing it more seriously.

And that's not even including SNAG…

P.S. Some courses do have disc golf courses on the property. Because the holes are often 250-500 FEET instead of yards, and because wide open spaces aren't great, it's generally not done because there are very real safety concerns. A disc golfer is not going to walk 7500 yards amongst wide open areas.

We can agree to disagree.  You often point out that anecdotal evidence is not fact, so you have your experiences and I have mine.

If I go to the bowling alley, I want to bowl properly, not with bumpers that artificially inflates my scores to makes me feel better.  When I golf, I want the challenge of improving by playing the actual sport, not playing 15" holes so I can score 10 shots lower.

Kids learn to play baseball by starting to play catch in their backyard.  They learn to hit a ball by swinging off a tee and then progress to someone throwing them the ball.   I see the analogy similar to learning to swing golf clubs and practice putting at the range and mini golf.

We don't place kids that have never caught, thrown or hit a baseball into the middle of a baseball game and tell them that instead of hitting the ball, they can throw it or kick it or if they touch a fly ball with their glove that's good enough to be considered a catch.

Golf was very popular 10 years ago and there weren't 15" holes and all this gimmicky stuff.  The game hasn't really changed, if anything it might have gotten easier thanks to technology so why is it now we have to dumb everything down to increase participation?  The problem isn't golf is too difficult it's that the work ethic and attitudes or people today have changed for the worse and they now want to be handed things that others in the past had to work for.

[boogielicious]

Poppycock and baloney.

My wife and kid began playing by teeing the ball up, throwing it when they wanted, stopping playing a hole when they were bored, taking side trips to see if there were any frogs in the pond, and just doing whatever they would find enjoyable.

Most people roll the ball in the fairways, take mulligans, etc.

Both my wife and kid - and those people who "contort the rules" - would have told you that they were still playing golf. They gained an appreciation for the game and "moved up" to playing it more seriously.

And that's not even including SNAG…

P.S. Some courses do have disc golf courses on the property. Because the holes are often 250-500 FEET instead of yards, and because wide open spaces aren't great, it's generally not done because there are very real safety concerns. A disc golfer is not going to walk 7500 yards amongst wide open areas.

Horsefeathers!  I'm not disagreeing.  I just want to use another substitute expletive from the 1920s just like @iacas !

[iacas]

We can agree to disagree.  You often point out that anecdotal evidence is not fact, so you have your experiences and I have mine.

It's not about anecdotal evidence. You probably can't find a single person who didn't "contort the rules" when they first started. [quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-inch-holes/120#post_980882"]If I go to the bowling alley, I want to bowl properly, not with bumpers that artificially inflates my scores to makes me feel better.  When I golf, I want the challenge of improving by playing the actual sport, not playing 15" holes so I can score 10 shots lower.[/quote] Great. You're not the target market. [quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-inch-holes/120#post_980882"]Kids learn to play baseball by starting to play catch in their backyard. They learn to hit a ball by swinging off a tee and then progress to someone throwing them the ball. I see the analogy similar to learning to swing golf clubs and practice putting at the range and mini golf.[/quote] But not to larger holes, teeing up the ball, throwing it out of bunkers, etc.? Makes no sense to me. [quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-inch-holes/120#post_980882"]We don't place kids that have never caught, thrown or hit a baseball into the middle of a baseball game and tell them that instead of hitting the ball, they can throw it or kick it or if they touch a fly ball with their glove that's good enough to be considered a catch.[/quote] Your t-ball example strikes me as invalidating your position. They haven't hit a pitched ball but are playing baseball. Seems awfully similar to what this is. [quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-inch-holes/120#post_980882"]Golf was very popular 10 years ago and there weren't 15" holes and all this gimmicky stuff.  The game hasn't really changed, if anything it might have gotten easier thanks to technology so why is it now we have to dumb everything down to increase participation?  The problem isn't golf is too difficult it's that the work ethic and attitudes or people today have changed for the worse and they now want to be handed things that others in the past had to work for.    [/quote] I'm a reasonably good golfer and I think it would be fun to play a little 15" golf now and then. It'd be fun to go at the hole from 40 yards out, or long putts, and to shave 45 minutes from a round. But then again I'm not a fuddy duddy. :-)

[newtogolf]

But then again I'm not a fuddy duddy.

If you use words like poppycock and fuddy duddy you are a fuddy duddy.

[Gunther]

I'm a reasonably good golfer and I think it would be fun to play a little 15" golf now and then. It'd be fun to go at the hole from 40 yards out, or long putts, and to shave 45 minutes from a round. But then again I'm not a fuddy duddy. :-)

I agree but when I want to play a variation I go to Top Golf. Not sure how widespread the franchise is but we have 3 in Dallas. Tons of fun, you hit out of bays in a bar-type environment and very large holes at various distances are arrayed across the driving range. Balls have computer chips that register proximity to the holes. Points awarded based on proximity and the distances. I believe the franchise is pretty strong here and it allows one to work on his/her game. Benefits are those you have cited ad infinitum here plus, it's not messing up greens or affecting anyone's enjoyment on the golf course.

[iacas]

I agree but when I want to play a variation I go to Top Golf.

Again, I'm not sure you're really the target market. It's primarily for beginners, though Dave and I would love to play in a "big hole tournament," and I'm helping put one together at Whispering Woods because lots of other non-beginners would love to try it out as well.

Benefits are those you have cited ad infinitum here plus, it's not messing up greens or affecting anyone's enjoyment on the golf course.

This doesn't mess up the greens or affect anyone's enjoyment of the course, either. If you're having a "big-hole tournament" then it's the same as any other tournament in which someone isn't playing: they're playing somewhere else.

[Gunther]

Again, I'm not sure you're really the target market. It's primarily for beginners, though Dave and I would love to play in a "big hole tournament," and I'm helping put one together at Whispering Woods because lots of other non-beginners would love to try it out as well. This doesn't mess up the greens or affect anyone's enjoyment of the course, either. If you're having a "big-hole tournament" then it's the same as any other tournament in which someone isn't playing: they're playing somewhere else.

Hear ya and I guess I wouldn't be opposed to playing in a tournament setting with large holes. When you get right down to it, it's not much different than playing a scramble, in terms of its relation to "real" golf, meaning scores are hcap postable.

[Lihu]

Again, I'm not sure you're really the target market. It's primarily for beginners, though Dave and I would love to play in a "big hole tournament," and I'm helping put one together at Whispering Woods because lots of other non-beginners would love to try it out as well.

This doesn't mess up the greens or affect anyone's enjoyment of the course, either. If you're having a "big-hole tournament" then it's the same as any other tournament in which someone isn't playing: they're playing somewhere else.

Am I still considered a beginner? I ask because this is something I would love to try out.

I'll keep stats on how many near misses (~<7.5") I make from now on. Seems like I had quite a few three putts cause by this. I really feel I can 1 putt more holes with a 15" cup.

[dzclarkcpa]

Didn't read all the responses, but do have one question.................

When is the QSchool for the 15" hole professional tour?!?!?!

You give me a hole that big and all of a sudden I am an average putter for sure. I usually only miss the current hole by 4-5 inches and most of the time, its with sorta good speed, so I am set.

I can see the headlines now "local boy wins US 15" Cup Open, defeating Tiger Woods in a 27 hole (bigger hole will equal longer playoff) playoff"

Anyone want to pony up the $15k to start my sponsorship?

I like the idea for a Introduce someone new to golf day, but think it will never take off. I do applaud people for thinking outside the box.

[Lihu]

Didn't read all the responses, but do have one question.................

When is the QSchool for the 15" hole professional tour?!?!?!

You give me a hole that big and all of a sudden I am an average putter for sure. I usually only miss the current hole by 4-5 inches and most of the time, its with sorta good speed, so I am set.

I can see the headlines now "local boy wins US 15" Cup Open, defeating Tiger Woods in a 27 hole (bigger hole will equal longer playoff) playoff"

Anyone want to pony up the $15k to start my sponsorship?

I like the idea for a Introduce someone new to golf day, but think it will never take off. I do applaud people for thinking outside the box.

Only problem is Tiger might make more eagles as well.

It seems like I also miss by the 4"-5" distance a lot more than not. I come up short less times than long and off by a cup or so. I'm going to track

[mvmac]

Again, I'm not sure you're really the target market. It's primarily for beginners, though Dave and I would love to play in a "big hole tournament," and I'm helping put one together at Whispering Woods because lots of other non-beginners would love to try it out as well.

Great idea, I'd love to play in something like that as well. Seems like fun.

[JohnLund]

If this was designed as a one-off course for beginning kids to age 10…then maybe…otherwise the idea is freaking ridiculous! No thanks.

[CarlSpackler]

It didn't seem like they wanted to change this across the board. I think it would be a good idea for junior tournaments. It's painful to see young kids putt the ball back and forth across the hole 2 or 3 times. Kids start hitting off tees when learning to play baseball.