Removing distance stakes.

[Ernest Jones]

On top of that they are right in the middle of the fairway.

Well, at least I don't have to worry about those ones.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Probably, but it's upto the club.

As one example, I've played courses where the distance "stakes" were bushes, strategically placed on each side of the fairway. Even though they serve the purpose of providing center-of-the-green yardage, they're an integral part of the course. Not quite what the OP is alluding to, but worth noting just the same.

But in that case they aren't obstructions, so they would be treated the same as any other bush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lastpick

Just recently got on Amazon and bought a copy of the "Illustrated Rules of Golf".  By used and save.  You don't know what you don't know.  Yes you get relief from the distance markers but not from OB stakes.

Not quite the full story. You only get relief from distance markers if they are not declared to be an 'integral part of the course'.

Although I suppose it's possible, this is something I've never seen.  I can't see any logical reason for such a designation for an obstruction which is deliberately placed where it will regularly be in play.  The only time I've found them to be an obstacle to play is when they are immovable stakes and just incidentally happen to lie in the line of play.   On every course I've ever played, they are obstructions, usually movable, and relief is given for lie, stance, and area of swing.

[Lastpick]

You are entitled to free relief from the cement distance markers along with sprinkler heads and other immoveable obstructions many of which are defined in the rule book.  The only reason I bought the rule book was to settle a disagreement at our course on a water hazard.  Some members said it was a lateral hazard.  By definition it was not a lateral hazard, but our course directors need to do their job and mark the hazard properly.

[Missouri Swede]

But then there are over 2000 courses I haven't visited in the UK alone.

Well, then, what are you sitting around here for?  There's serious work to be done!

[Golfingdad]

Here's a question:  What if the movable obstruction isn't movable?  If Tiger was unable to get help from the crowd some years ago I believe he would have been SOL and had to play it as it lie.

But what if the movable obstruction was what we're discussing - a stake in the middle of the fairway intended to be movable - and it just so happened that for whatever reason, you couldn't move it?  The ones I've seen in the middle of the fairway (usually not distance markers but actually aiming sticks) are typically squarish steel posts slid into a steel or concrete hole and they fit perfectly.  I could see one not being moved for awhile and getting kind of "rusted shut."  Are you just out of luck in that case, or can you take relief?

[dkolo]

Here's a question:  What if the movable obstruction isn't movable?  If Tiger was unable to get help from the crowd some years ago I believe he would have been SOL and had to play it as it lie. But what if the movable obstruction was what we're discussing - a stake in the middle of the fairway intended to be movable - and it just so happened that for whatever reason, you couldn't move it?  The ones I've seen in the middle of the fairway (usually not distance markers but actually aiming sticks) are typically squarish steel posts slid into a steel or concrete hole and they fit perfectly.  I could see one not being moved for awhile and getting kind of "rusted shut."  Are you just out of luck in that case, or can you take relief?

Wasn't the rock considered a loose impediment?

[iacas]

Wasn't the rock considered a loose impediment?

Yes.

[rogolf]

Here's a question:  What if the movable obstruction isn't movable?  If Tiger was unable to get help from the crowd some years ago I believe he would have been SOL and had to play it as it lie.

But what if the movable obstruction was what we're discussing - a stake in the middle of the fairway intended to be movable - and it just so happened that for whatever reason, you couldn't move it?  The ones I've seen in the middle of the fairway (usually not distance markers but actually aiming sticks) are typically squarish steel posts slid into a steel or concrete hole and they fit perfectly.  I could see one not being moved for awhile and getting kind of "rusted shut."  Are you just out of luck in that case, or can you take relief?

From the definition of obstructions - "an obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage.  Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction."

The rock Tiger et al moved was not an obstruction, it was a loose impediment.

[Rulesman]

Here's a question:  What if the movable obstruction isn't movable?   I could see one not being moved for awhile and getting kind of "rusted shut."  Are you just out of luck in that case, or can you take relief?

If it cannot be moved with reasonable effort then you may take relief as for any immovable obstruction.

[Golfingdad]

Wasn't the rock considered a loose impediment?

Yes.

From the definition of obstructions - "an obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage.  Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction."

The rock Tiger et al moved was not an obstruction, it was a loose impediment.

Yup, my mistake.  Bottom line then is that it becomes an immovable obstruction and relief is given.

Thanks!

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkolo

Wasn't the rock considered a loose impediment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogolf

From the definition of obstructions - "an obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage.  Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction."

The rock Tiger et al moved was not an obstruction, it was a loose impediment.

Yup, my mistake.  Bottom line then is that it becomes an immovable obstruction and relief is given.

Thanks!

Either that or make sure one of you playing partners can dead lift half a ton.

[Rulesman]

Yup, my mistake.  Bottom line then is that it becomes an immovable obstruction and relief is given.

Thanks!

No.

An “ obstruction ’’ is anything artificial,

So it doesn't meet that requirement

“ Loose impediments ’’ are natural objects, including stones (and the like)

So it seems to match that. But it goes on to say

provided they are not: solidly embedded,

Which rules that out.

The bottom line is, NO free relief.

[Golfingdad]

Either that or make sure one of you playing partners can dead lift half a ton.

No.

An “obstruction’’ is anything artificial,

So it doesn't meet that requirement

“Loose impediments’’ are natural objects, including stones (and the like)

So it seems to match that. But it goes on to say

provided they are not: solidly embedded,

Which rules that out.

The bottom line is, NO free relief.

I think you guys misunderstand.  "Yup, my mistake" refers to my confusion regarding Tiger.  Everything else in my post is referring to my original question about the immovable movable aiming stick.  Sorry about that.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Either that or make sure one of you playing partners can dead lift half a ton.

Everything else in my post is referring to my original question about the immovable movable aiming stick.

My response was aimed more at this. That is, having a playing partner that can move the immovable movable stick easily (reasonably and expeditiously). . .

[Golfingdad]

My response was aimed more at this. That is, having a playing partner that can move the immovable movable stick easily (reasonably and expeditiously). . .

I thought you were too until I read Rulesmans response, then I realized how you both could have been confused by my ambiguity. :)

[turtleback]

I thought you were too until I read Rulesmans response, then I realized how you both could have been confused by my ambiguity. :)

I think part of our confusion is that you were somehow attaching the "movable" appellation to this particular obstruction.  An obstruction is not intrinsically classified as movable or immovable.  That distinction is made, strangely enough based on whether the obstruction can be moved, as was already quoted.

Say there is a post with the outside sleeve and it is a nice warm sunny day.  The post slides out easily, hence the obstruction is a movable obstruction.

Now 6 months later the situation is the same except it is real cold and water has seeped down and frozen solid and now you cannot slide the post out of its sleeve.  NOW the post is an immovable obstruction.

But without knowing the conditions all we can say about the post itself is that it is an obstruction.

[rogolf]

Yup, my mistake.  Bottom line then is that it becomes an immovable obstruction and relief is given.

Thanks!

That rock never becomes an immovable obstruction (without alteration of some sort) - it is a loose impediment.

[Golfingdad]

That rock never becomes an immovable obstruction (without alteration of some sort) - it is a loose impediment.

See post #31 above.