Will your handicap remain the same off of different tees (should it?)

[bones75]

I've wondered this.  I play from whites to the tips depending on who I'm playing with, and maybe I shouldn't.  My handicap drops if I've played from shorter tees recently (e.g. whites & blues) vs longer tees (blues & blacks).  This is in part due to me not being a long hitter, but I'm thinking that the same applies to most golfers.  I.e. the decrease in slope/rating does not compensate enough for the scoring differences from tee box changes. Do other people think this is also true?  If Im doing my calculations correctly, for my home course where the slopes are blue=129 and whites=121.  A 1 handicapper's gross and net scores don't really change between blues and whites.  (needs to shoot a 73 for a NET 72 from either tees).  But the whites are over a 1,000 yards shorter than the blues, so I'm confident that same 1 handicapper could shoot much lower on average from the white's.  Likewise can you tank your handicap by always playing from shorter tees, and sandbag by always playing from longer tees?

This whole question is kinda a "duh" question, but still... are you "supposed" to only use your rounds for your handicap when playing off of the recommended tees from the scorecard?  Do all scorecards have this info?

Have looked for a similar thread here at TST but couldn't find one.

[DrvFrShow]

Mine dropped this year primarily because I was playing longer courses, not because I was playing any better. My putting was worse. My home course is rated 69.1/112 from the forward tees (5200 yds) and I was not scoring any better there than I was on courses 72/121/5600, 74/124/5800. As a matter of fact my scores on the longer courses were identical or even better for some reason, thus making up for my poor putting and lowering my handicap.

The problem is that my leagues play from the short tees so most of my rounds are there. Any tournament in my age group is from the short tees. So I'm really doing myself a disservice by playing longer courses or from longer tees. It depends upon your game. 

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, bones75 said:

This whole question is kinda a "duh" question, but still... are you "supposed" to only use your rounds for your handicap when playing off of the recommended tees from the scorecard?  Do all scorecards have this info?

Have looked for a similar thread here at TST but couldn't find one.

Nope, you plug in any round you played under the rules of golf. 

I haven't looked at any numbers to determine if handicap decreases or increases as it should if you move to different tee boxes.

I could say it depends on the course. If you play one set of tees and all the bunkers are just outside the reach of your driver you might shoot better because the hazards are not in your typical landing area. For better players it doesn't matter as much. Length is the primary indicator of difficulty for better players. 

I think it depends on the golfer and the course you are talking about. 

[bones75]

@saevel25  What you says makes perfect sense. But can't we agree that "in general" a golfer (in particular better golfers) will score better on the same course if playing from tees 1,000 yards shorter than another set of tees (assuming here not gigantic differences in slope)?  If so, then doesn't that allow for the "manipulation" of an index as I described?

Edited November 17, 2015 by bones75

[vangator]

If we're talking the same course, your HCP should be lower from the forward tees.  The main component to scoring is proximity to the green on approach shots.  You'll just be able to get the ball closer to the pin from the shorter tees.

[pganapathy]

When I am playing well, the tees do not make a huge difference to my handicap, except on the longer holes where you wind up hitting a long iron for your tee, second shot or third shot as the case may be, and this impacts you getting a GIR.  Generally though when you are playing well it is not too much of an issue.  When you are struggling though, the shorter irons are way more accurate and the distance differential matters

[kpaulhus]

I'm going to play from the red tees this weekend to see how much it impacts my scoring. Ill probably be able to get to some Par 4's off the tee. 

[RFKFREAK]

Considering I had 1 GIR in each of my last two rounds, one of which I played from the Blues, the other from the Whites, albeit at different courses, I'm going to say that it doesn't make as much difference as it should. 

From my own personal experience, I suck so hard whether it's a wood, hybrid, long iron, mid iron, or short iron, that it won't matter since I rarely get on the greens with any club except a wedge that I'm chipping or pitching.

 

Ofc, YMMV.

[No Mulligans]

I would say, it depends.  When coming up with course ratings, the committee uses these definitions (among other things):

From the USGA http://www.usga.org/handicapping-articles/course-rating-primer-e5bf725f.html

Quote

Scratch Golfer: A male scratch golfer is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses. A male scratch golfer, for rating purposes, can hit tee shots an average of 250 yards and can reach a 470-yard hole in two shots.

Bogey Golfer:   A male bogey golfer is a player who has a Course Handicap™ of approximately 20 on a course of standard difficulty. He can hit tee shots an average of 200 yards and can reach a 370-yard hole in two shots at sea level.

Say you're a bogey golfer but only average 180 off the tee.  Holding all other things constant, wouldn't you be better off playing from the whites than the blues and shouldn't that result in lower differentials?

Or if you're a bogey golfer but average 230 off the tee.  Holding all other things constant, wouldn't you be better off playing from the blues than the whites and shouldn't that result in lower differentials?

Edited November 17, 2015 by No Mulligans

[Dave2512]

My experience is handicap trend started to decline moving back until I got to the point the courses are too long to benefit from the higher course rating as the strokes outpace it. Moving up is trickier for me because I typically don't score so much better that taking less strokes catches the lower rating. But it's not huge differences either. My differentials at courses I play often don't change much when I move around.

But and a big but is I believe it depends on where you are starting from, meaning how skillful you are ATM. When I was a 20 handicap moving up yielded massively lower scores. When I worked to become better it was offset by having to make sacrifices due to club choice. It brought trouble closer, stuff usually out of range and all that. I have to hit 5 irons to where I usually hit driver or 3w and have the same approach on some holes.

It's a big reason I wish people or rather men would be a little more thoughtful about tee choices. Play where you have a chance to score half decent. Probably relieves a little of the pressure to perform from the tee if you aren't always faced with having to hit a bomb to get into mid iron range.

[Golfingdad]

In theory, yeah, your handicap should be the same from different tees, which is the goal of the rating system after all.

In reality, it's different for every player.  If you tend to be a good driver of the ball but suck around the greens, then you're probably going to see your handicap go up as you go to shorter tees, and down as you go to longer tees.

Similarly, if you spray the ball off the tee but excel with the irons and wedges, you can probably achieve a lower handicap from shorter tees if you take advantage of the free distance by hitting shorter, straighter clubs off the tee.

[bkuehn1952]

I believe the institution of the slope system was supposed to somewhat even out the differentials one scored regardless of the course or tee played.  On average one's handicap would be the same after 20 scores no matter which courses or tees were played.

My personal opinion based solely on anecdotal information is that the above is not correct.  Except for the highly skilled player, at some point the typical handicapper is going to see worse results if they play a set of tees or courses that are too long for their game.

I may play to my handicap 20% of the time whether I play a set of tees rated 67.5/113 or 72.4/140.  Put me on a course rated 76.6/145, depending on the course characteristics, and I might never get within 2-3 shots of my handicap.  If a 250 yard carry is required to get to the fairway, like Bethpage's US Open set-up, I may never get past the 5th hole.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, vangator said:

If we're talking the same course, your HCP should be lower from the forward tees.  The main component to scoring is proximity to the green on approach shots.  You'll just be able to get the ball closer to the pin from the shorter tees.

Score, not handicap will be lower. Better players use the CR.

[sjduffers]

The slope coefficient typically has a lower effect on the score differential (used to compute the handicap index) than the rating of the tee, and for better players (closer to scratch), the slope has even less effect as the slope is defined to gauge the difficulty of a course for bogey golfers and the rating as the gauge of difficulty for scratch players.

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Score, not handicap will be lower. Better players use the CR.

This.

[bones75]

Such interesting responses.  Everyone sounds right in certain aspects.  Depends on course, depends on player.  I'm usually between a 8-12 index, and although it sounds ridiculous, it's true: I've actually broken 70 twice from the whites on my home course, and carded a 72 once (6,000 yards), but have never broken 80 from the tips (7,000 yards).  My strengths are my consistency, wedges and short game, and weaknesses in general are length. I'm not super short, but am by no means long. The reason I thought there is such a huge differential between white and blues for me is that from the whites i can have a PW or less into >50% of the holes (which I'm super confident w/), can shortcut 6-7 doglegs on par 4's and 5's, and can consistently reach one of the par 5's in two  From the tips none of this is true, a few of the par-4's are effectively out of reach for me, and all four par 3's are 50+ yds longer between the whites and the tips (mid irons not wedges, and woods not mid-irons). I'm probably just swinging a lot easier and confidently on days i play from the whites as well.   Home course (alas, just moved away): Shoreline Golf Links, Mountain View, CA.

[Dave2512]

Really not a better player thing if people are maintaining an official handicap the rating is a factor. But I could see my handicap trending up from the most forward tees at the course I play most. The rating from those tees is about 5.5 under par (I think). There would be no way I could consistently score low enough. A 75 would be a differential around 9-10. I play a couple courses where the reds have a men's rating and those are super short. It would be a challenge for sure.

[RickK]

41 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

My experience is handicap trend started to decline moving back until I got to the point the courses are too long to benefit from the higher course rating as the strokes outpace it. Moving up is trickier for me because I typically don't score so much better that taking less strokes catches the lower rating. But it's not huge differences either. My differentials at courses I play often don't change much when I move around.

But and a big but is I believe it depends on where you are starting from, meaning how skillful you are ATM. When I was a 20 handicap moving up yielded massively lower scores. When I worked to become better it was offset by having to make sacrifices due to club choice. It brought trouble closer, stuff usually out of range and all that. I have to hit 5 irons to where I usually hit driver or 3w and have the same approach on some holes.

It's a big reason I wish people or rather men would be a little more thoughtful about tee choices. Play where you have a chance to score half decent. Probably relieves a little of the pressure to perform from the tee if you aren't always faced with having to hit a bomb to get into mid iron range.

The above is so true.  I have heard for years the comment that "Oh it does not matter, your handicap changes to compensate for the shorter or longer distances you will be playing.  It makes not difference."  YES IT DOES.  I am 69 years old.  I have lost a lot of distance over the past 3 years and I have reached a point in life where I cannot play from 6800-7200 yards and even with the extra handicap strokes come anywhere near to shooting my handicap.  I can come a little closer to it around 6500 yards but it is still pretty hard and very very infrequently. 

[Golfingdad]

For anybody interested, I believe that this old thread is now more than just tangentially related: