Changes to Handicap System for 2016 Released

[RFKFREAK]

On 12/2/2015 at 10:59 AM, iacas said:

We'll have a code for you guys for shotstohole.com here shortly… so if you want to wait for that, cool.

Seeing as how I just saw this post and it's the offseason, waiting is an easy thing to do, haha. 

[LeftRightLeft]

I'm trying to figure out if I should be bothered by it.  This is clearly about sand bagging.  I suppose it's a problem at some clubs.  I was visiting my parents and I saw in the local paper that the winning net score at the local muni was 61, with second place a 62!   Since this type of scoring doesn't happen at my club, I had to laugh.  

On the other hand, It almost seems like the USGA wants to lower the number of folks with handicaps, rather than increase the number.   Is the USGA is losing (lost?) sight of one of their mandates: grow the game?  

I don't belong to a country club, just a muni club, and I don't play alone very often.  My muni club rarely has a problem with sandbagging.  It might happen once, but they freely assign a tournament handicap.  A typical winning net score is 68, which seems pretty reasonable. 

I know some golfers have the luxury of playing practice rounds.  I don't, so when I play it's real to me and I play by the rules of golf (not as in a Bond film).  I post the few 9 hole scores I play per the club rules.   As it is, I'm only playing around 15-20 rounds a year.  My regular group are serious golfers (but we all lack time).  I also play with some guys that enjoy a few pops during their rounds.  They could not care less that I follow the rules.  I post those rounds equally, and if I played alone, it's not any different.  If anything, I play better alone than with my less sober friends.  Does that mean I will be "gaming" my handicap?

So does this "solve" a problem, or merely create new ones?  

What are the forum's thoughts on this?  

[cipher]

This bothers me a lot.  As someone who normally plays rounds very early in the morning during weekdays and almost always alone as most people don't want to tee off at 5:30-6am, this pretty much sucks.  I hardly ever play on weekends as that is when I spend my time with my family.  For the maybe 3-5 rounds per year I play with other people it won't be worth it to keep a handicap anymore.  Brilliant idea USGA.  I won't be renewing my handicap or a membership.

[Smidd4]

I post online normally and am very curious as to what is stopping people from doing so still. Has anybody tried it? I would but in Washington we are in the offseason from being allowed to post. 

[Patch]

I will keep playing, and if I am alone, I wont post the score. It matters little to me in this instance. Now if I join up with another player during the round, does that matter?

What I think the reason for this is the "slow play" scenario. If you can get fewer folks from golfing alone, then perhaps it might speed up play. Then again, can two players play faster than one?

If its about sandbagging, then it still wont help since cheaters will always continue to cheat.

I suppose eventually the courses and ruling bodies will want all score cards signed by someone other than the player who shot the score on that card. 

There are far more changes than this one that would have helped the recreational golfer more. 

[Missouri Swede]

15 minutes ago, Patch said:

 Now if I join up with another player during the round, does that matter?

From the usga: 

Quote

How many holes can a player play alone to post the score?

The player must be accompanied for at least seven holes for a nine-hole score or 13 holes for 18-hole score. This is consistent with Section 5-1 and the minimum number of holes played under the Rules of Golf.

For the holes played alone (not accompanied), the player would treat these as not played under the Rules of Golf and post according to “par plus” any handicap strokes the player is entitled to receive.

(For more information, see Section 4-2).

Note: If a player plays nearly all holes accompanied but just a few alone, the holes played alone are calculated using “par plus,” keeping in mind the maximum that can be played alone in a round eligible for posting is two holes for a 9-hole score and five holes for an 18-hole score. Some examples would be starting out alone and joining up with a player(s), or starting out accompanied and finishing the round alone. 

 

[Patch]

2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

From the usga: 

 

Good to know.

[JetFan1983]

I'm just getting caught up on all of this after taking a break from golf (due to injury) for a couple months. Interesting new rule. At first, I felt pretty sad that I could no longer post solo rounds for my handicap (as my best round from 2015 was a solo round), but @iacas has talked me off the ledge. It does feel like a happy medium between what they do in Europe and what we used to do. 

Hopefully I can fully accept this as the new reality fairly quickly . I'm not quite there yet. 

[DrvFrShow]

Now suppose a player is establishing a handicap and plays 18 holes of golf and only 13 of them are accompanied? How does that person score the other 5 holes? Par + HC doesn't apply. Is it an automatic X10 on those holes? Or do they use the score they actually had? The rules don't say. 

[cipher]

Where has all the common sense gone? Those saying just post your rounds anyway prove a point.  This rule will do essentially nothing to stop the dishonest including sandbaggers or vanity cap golfers.  It really only affects those of us who either have to or prefer to play alone and in a very negative way.  I would wager that number is much more than people think.  There are multiple people in this thread who do and I know of at least 10 at my home course who play early morning rounds alone.   It may not be a huge number but they are still going to hurt a segment of the industry who play alone and enjoy keeping an index.

The USGA has missed the point here.  This is nothing near a happy medium.  If they really care about the integrity of the game then they need to make it tournament scores only.  That I could actually understand.  That actually means something.  This new change is just ignorant.

For now, I won't be keeping a handicap anymore as I don't feel a few rounds per year is enough for me to see any tangible change in what I am working on.  Who cares about the scores now, I will just golf for what I enjoy, which is playing early in the morning without having to be around people with no common sense.  

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by cipher

[DaveP043]

Just a couple of comments.  First, I don't know the reasoning behind this rule change, but I've read suggestions that this could be a first step towards unifying the handicap systems worldwide.  Most of the other systems don't allow solo rounds to be posted.  If we do indeed end up with a single worldwide handicap system, everyone will have to get used to changes.

Second, a functioning handicap committee will probably be able to look at a tee sheet and determine whether you started off as a single, or as part of a larger group.  The committee has the responsibility, and the authority, to delete solo rounds from your record.  At the very minimum, the committee should contact you to verify that the rounds are indeed "postable" under the rules.  I realize that not every handicap is reviewed by a committee, but that's what the rules say should happen.

For those like @cipher, who talk about dropping out of the USGA system.  If you don't ever expect to compete against other people, you don't need a USGA handicap.  But if you want to play an occasional tournament, or perhaps might be invited to a friend's Member-Guest, you'll want to make sure you do have a USGA handicap.  You'll probably still want to keep your own records to include your solo rounds and evaluate the state of your game.

Last, for those who plan to enter their solo rounds, disregarding the new rule, there's a simple follow-up question:  Which other rules don't apply to you?  Yeah, that's kind of harsh, but I'd urge everyone to play by the rules, all the rules, as best you can, even the ones that you don't like.

[Pete]

47 minutes ago, cipher said:

The USGA has missed the point here.  This is nothing near a happy medium.  If they really care about the integrity of the game then they need to make it tournament scores only.  That I could actually understand.  That actually means something.  This new change is just ignorant.

I agree. In the UK, our handicap is based on tournament scores ONLY. I play plenty of rounds on my own, and plenty with others not in a competition. We still keep score, but it doesn't change my handicap. It puts pressure on the tournament rounds but more importantly, it means you can rely on the handicaps of competitors because you know the scores used to determine their index, were under full rules of golf, scored and signed by another competitor.

I would not enter a tournament if the other players handicaps were self assessed. No chance.

It would make more sense for the USGA to have just added a 'tournament handicap' option so you can all keep your own self assessed handicaps so you have an index that reflects your general golfing ability, but those who want to play in tournaments, use their tournament handicap which reflects your ability to score under the full rules of golf and you can rely on all competitors' tournament handicaps being accurate too.

I realise that your system reflects your current general playing ability more accurately than ours. Ours reflects your playing ability in tournaments more accurately but not necessarily your general ability at that time.

My handicap based on the average of the 10 best scores from my last 20 rounds (USGA styles) would be 2 to 3. In the summer, it would have been close to 0.

My handicap is 5.

[Missouri Swede]

3 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Now suppose a player is establishing a handicap and plays 18 holes of golf and only 13 of them are accompanied? How does that person score the other 5 holes? Par + HC doesn't apply. Is it an automatic X10 on those holes? Or do they use the score they actually had? The rules don't say. 

The usga tells us to use par plus for those unaccompanied holes.

10 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

How many holes can a player play alone to post the score?

The player must be accompanied for at least seven holes for a nine-hole score or 13 holes for 18-hole score. This is consistent with Section 5-1 and the minimum number of holes played under the Rules of Golf.

For the holes played alone (not accompanied), the player would treat these as not played under the Rules of Golf and post according to “par plus” any handicap strokes the player is entitled to receive.

(For more information, see Section 4-2).

Note: If a player plays nearly all holes accompanied but just a few alone, the holes played alone are calculated using “par plus,” keeping in mind the maximum that can be played alone in a round eligible for posting is two holes for a 9-hole score and five holes for an 18-hole score. Some examples would be starting out alone and joining up with a player(s), or starting out accompanied and finishing the round alone. 

 

[JBailey]

I'm one of those folks who get up early and often play a round in the early morning alone.  Since I didn't belong to a club this year I used the Golf Digest handicap site to calculate my handicap.  So, I know it wasn't official.  I didn't start up golf again till mid summer this year, but because of the beautiful weather we had in Northern Michigan this year (I played all the way to Christmas) I got in 50 rounds -- most alone.

I don't necessarily like the new rule about playing alone.  However, I'm joining a club next year and will go by the rule without consternation.  I'll, simply, use the Golf Digest site to include all my scores for my real purpose of having a handicap -- to access my improvement, or lack of improvement.  I'll also keep an official handicap using the USGA rules.  

Now, I have a question about the new rules.  Since a good portion of my "official" rounds will be league play, and the league rules will allow "winter rules," will I be able to post those rounds officially.  I suspect not, but I'm not sure.  If I can't, I'm going to have darn few round to count using official handicap rules.

Later,

John

Edited January 14, 2016 by JBailey

[DeadMan]

This rule is dumb. It's aimed at sandbaggers and extreme vanity cappers (probably those who do it to get into USGA events), but it's not going to have an effect on either of those. Sandbaggers can still sandbag if they're playing with other people, and vanity cappers can still vanity cap if they're playing with other people. So what does this rule actually do? I don't get it at all.

The other issue is, how will clubs police this? I know my men's club, which is not at a private club, will have no way of policing this. No one is going to care if you post single rounds, either, unless you're a sandbagger or extreme vanity capper. I really don't get the point.

I would completely understand if it was something to start us moving towards a unified system, as @cipher said. But they said the point of the rule is to underline the necessity of peer review for handicaps.

In the end, it doesn't affect me much because I rarely play rounds alone. I'll probably lose one or two scores a year because of this. No big deal. Doesn't make it a smart rule.

[Fourputt]

3 hours ago, cipher said:

Where has all the common sense gone? Those saying just post your rounds anyway prove a point.  This rule will do essentially nothing to stop the dishonest including sandbaggers or vanity cap golfers.  It really only affects those of us who either have to or prefer to play alone and in a very negative way.  I would wager that number is much more than people think.  There are multiple people in this thread who do and I know of at least 10 at my home course who play early morning rounds alone.   It may not be a huge number but they are still going to hurt a segment of the industry who play alone and enjoy keeping an index.

The USGA has missed the point here.  This is nothing near a happy medium.  If they really care about the integrity of the game then they need to make it tournament scores only.  That I could actually understand.  That actually means something.  This new change is just ignorant.

For now, I won't be keeping a handicap anymore as I don't feel a few rounds per year is enough for me to see any tangible change in what I am working on.  Who cares about the scores now, I will just golf for what I enjoy, which is playing early in the morning without having to be around people with no common sense.  

 

 

For individuals who want to keep an official handicap but only play 2 or 3 competitions per year, a tournament only handicap would be impractical.  Not all of us play in a club with weekly comps.  There are more public than private course golfers in the US.  Even the difficulty of simply establishing a handicap - you can't play in a tournament if you don't have a handicap, but you can only enter tournament scores for handicap.  You have the classic catch 22 issue.  Making the player play the competitions but it doesn't count until he has enough scores for handicap, that's going to raise even more complaints.

There is no reason to keep a handicap if you don't compete anyway.  For tracking stats it's a false indicator because it only tracks your good rounds.  Makes more sense to follow a complete average of all scores if you are honestly interested in tracking game improvement.

2 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

The usga tells us to use par plus for those unaccompanied holes.

 

The question was "How do you post those other 5 holes if you don't have an established handicap?"  When a player is just gathering his scores to get his first ever handicap, he can't use par plus because he doesn't have any "plus".  You could say that a player knows what level he shoots at and he can estimate the range his cap should fall into, but that really isn't how it's supposed to work.  

Most players just starting out aren't probably going to understand the finer points of the system anyway.  They will turn in the score for all 18 holes as if they had played with a companion all the way, and not realize that it is wrong.  These aren't typically the people who are trying to work the system.  The player who is setting his handicap for the first time is most likely going to submit scores as honestly as he knows how.  It's only after an unscrupulous player gains experience with the system that he would deliberately submit improper scores for sandbagging purposes.

I still believe that this is less of a focus on sandbagging prevention and more as a first step toward a unified global handicap system.  It will be interesting to see where the different systems meet and what compromises are made from both ends.

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

First, I don't know the reasoning behind this rule change

According to an article I read (on here, I think) yesterday, it's all about "peer review."  If that is the case, I think that they are off base here and picking the wrong battlefield for this fight.  For those of us who have handicaps at public clubs, most of us don't have a group of peers that would pay attention to our scores anyway.  I have a small handful of buddies that I golf with, and none of us have our handicaps established through the same clubs.  Further, even if we did, we don't follow each other to the posting computer and watch with a keen eye over each others shoulders to make certain that we post and post accurately.

Heck, we don't even go to the computers.  Do courses even have those anymore?  Every round I've posted in the last several years has been online.  Usually right after I leave the course on my phone, but sometimes at home.

None of my buddies are checking up on me and making sure that I posted exactly what I scored either.  Hell, when all is said and done after 18 holes, a lot of times, we don't even know what the others scored, nor do we care if we weren't betting.

Also of note is that the rule simply just says players playing alone can't post.  So when I play 9 holes with my 6 year old son, those count, but @cipher's when he's playing alone don't?  That makes no sense.

I don't play alone, so this rule doesn't affect me, however, it does in the sense that I'm offended that the USGA seems to feel like we are all cheaters when we're not being watched.  That is what this rule says to me.  An analogy would be that if you ever hit a ball into the woods, you aren't allowed to go look for it or play it without a playing partner, because hey, you might cheat.  "Well, your partner was behind that mound for that last shot so this hole can't count.  Take par plus.  Sorry."  I thought this game was all about integrity and honesty and such?

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I don't play alone, so this rule doesn't affect me, however, it does in the sense that I'm offended that the USGA seems to feel like we are all cheaters when we're not being watched.  That is what this rule says to me.  An analogy would be that if you ever hit a ball into the woods, you aren't allowed to go look for it or play it without a playing partner, because hey, you might cheat.  "Well, your partner was behind that mound for that last shot so this hole can't count.  Take par plus.  Sorry."  I thought this game was all about integrity and honesty and such?

I don't get it really. 

To me this game has always been about honesty and integrity such that golfers self police themselves if we do not have the luxury of having a rules official present. 

Here is an interesting question. Lets look at the definition of The Player in the rules. 

Quote

6-1. Rules

The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules. During a stipulated round, for any breach of a Rule by his caddie, the player incurs the applicable penalty.

Could I say that by the rules anyone who doesn't know the rules is not a player of the game of golf and can't sign off on a round? 

If we are to say someone is playing the game of golf. Then to have a person sign off they have to have a playing partner. Meaning that person to must be playing the same game if not then they are not playing together. To be a player you must know the rules of the game. So should there be a test requiring you know the rules of the game before you are allowed to have a handicap or sign off on a card?