Did Jordan Spieth violate the rules at Doral?

[saevel25]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/spieth-cards-73-stumps-everyone-rules-question/

I still haven't heard if they ruled on this or not. It's an interesting case where he's clearly changing how the club sits on the ground. Yet the rules only stipulate foreign material applied to the clubface for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball is a violation of the rules. 

 

[jamo]

It sounds like Spieth doesn't actually do this during tournament rounds, but I'm still a bit confused as to what he actually does and why he does it. When the greens are "shiny," does that mean they're wet and dewy, or so dry they're shiny?

And he wants more traction? Isn't the putter only touching the ground for the first few degrees as he swings it back?

[Golfingdad]

The answer to the question in the title is obviously no because he said he hasn't done it in a tournament round because he's still yet to receive a definitive answer to his question.

[Rulesman]

Is he unsure about 4-2/4?

[Martyn W]

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/spieth-cards-73-stumps-everyone-rules-question/

I still haven't heard if they ruled on this or not. It's an interesting case where he's clearly changing how the club sits on the ground. Yet the rules only stipulate foreign material applied to the clubface for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball is a violation of the rules. 

 

@saevel25 I think the issue is not about foreign material but rather altering the playing characteristics

[David in FL]

6 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Is he unsure about 4-2/4?

That's how I read it.  I may be missing something, but given the intent, I don't see how it could be permissible.

[newtogolf]

17 minutes ago, David in FL said:

That's how I read it.  I may be missing something, but given the intent, I don't see how it could be permissible.

But then why would wiping it with a wet towel be?  The ruling he was given was inconsistent imo.

[Dave325]

12 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

But then why would wiping it with a wet towel be?  The ruling he was given was inconsistent imo.

Agreed! It seems that if he could use a towel, then what Speith does with the clubface should be permissible. 

[Asheville]

31 minutes ago, Dave325 said:

Agreed! It seems that if he could use a towel, then what Speith does with the clubface should be permissible. 

Dave, your seeing the application of an "intent" based Rule. (Some Rules have this built in, but others don't.)

It's always okay to wipe the club dry, but never to wipe it "wet."

[Dormie1360]

Reading the article I'm not 100% sure what his intent actually is.  I don't think it's done to influence the movement of the ball (4-2/4).  Sounds like he just wets the bottom of the club so the club does not slip when addressing.  That's the only time the bottom of the putter comes in contact with the ground.....certainly for him anyway.  

Is that changing the playing characteristics of the club?  I'm not sure I'd go that far.  I'd have to hear the USGA's reasoning if they don't allow it.

Personally, I think the difference/value is all in his head.  

[Fourputt]

36 minutes ago, Asheville said:

Dave, your seeing the application of an "intent" based Rule. (Some Rules have this built in, but others don't.)

It's always okay to wipe the club dry, but never to wipe it "wet."

Sure it is.  I wipe my clubs with a wet towel after just about every shot.  However I rarely do this with my putter because it never really gets dirty, and I don't wipe a club before a shot unless I've neglected to clean it after the last time I used it.  

In Spieth's case, I feel that the ruling is proper because he is clearly wiping or spitting before the shot for only one purpose, and that is assist him in his play.  I really think that it's all in his head anyway, like Sergio's 45 second waggle.  Garcia made the change and got past it and still managed to play pretty good golf, so Jordan needs to do the same.

[Martyn W]

47 minutes ago, Asheville said:

Dave, your seeing the application of an "intent" based Rule. (Some Rules have this built in, but others don't.)

It's always okay to wipe the club dry, but never to wipe it "wet."

@Ashville Based on your statement, would you say that a player 'dipping' his club in water prior to making a stroke (TTG, of course) is subject to penalty?

[saevel25]

I think the intent here is wha matters more. I could say making the bottom of the putter wet so it feels better when grounding the club is equivalent to improving your lie. Craig Stadler didn't want to get his pants dirty and used a towel and got dinged. 

[Martyn W]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

I think the intent here is wha matters more. I could say making the bottom of the putter wet so it feels better when grounding the club is equivalent to improving your lie. Craig Stadler didn't want to get his pants dirty and used a towel and got dinged. 

Quite the opposite, Stadler built a stance (13-3), which is not an intent Rule.

[turtleback]

12 hours ago, saevel25 said:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/spieth-cards-73-stumps-everyone-rules-question/

I still haven't heard if they ruled on this or not. It's an interesting case where he's clearly changing how the club sits on the ground. Yet the rules only stipulate foreign material applied to the clubface for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball is a violation of the rules. 

 

Regardless of what the decision is, since he didn't do it during play the answer is obviously no, he did not violate the rules.

[David in FL]

20 minutes ago, Martyn W said:

Quite the opposite, Stadler built a stance (13-3), which is not an intent Rule.

Bingo.  One of the few rules where intent not only matters, but is a critical component.

[Asheville]

30 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Sure it is.  I wipe my clubs with a wet towel after just about every shot.

It depends upon your intent. If your intent is to add moisture to the clubface in anticipation of your next stroke, then you're in breach. 

However, I suspect that you're cleaning the schmutz off in anticipation of your next stroke. 

26 minutes ago, Martyn W said:

@Ashville Based on your statement, would you say that a player 'dipping' his club in water prior to making a stroke (TTG, of course) is subject to penalty?

It's all about intent, don't you think?

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, Asheville said:

It depends upon your intent. If your intent is to add moisture to the clubface in anticipation of your next stroke, then you're in breach. 

However, I suspect that you're cleaning the schmutz off in anticipation of your next stroke. 

Which is why I went on in the part you didn't quote to say the same thing as you just did.  I think that a player wetting or wiping saliva on a clean club with the intent of using it help him in his play is in breach. 

Since the rules specifically mention not doing anything "for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball", this may require a decision to be added if the ruling ultimately goes against Spieth.  I think that you could stretch to include what he does, because by making it easier to hold his setup, it helps him to make a better stroke, thus indirectly influencing the action of the ball.