Presidential Race 2016

[Big Lex]

12 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Marijuana?

The drug question is tough. My observations:

1. Medical marijuana isn't really a valid concept. Yes, it alleviates pain. It's a drug. So does alcohol. We don't talk about "medical alcohol" except in a joking manner. Most of the clinical studies showing efficacy of marijuana in disease deal with pain or spasticity, and the drug does not have any sort of specific efficacy in this regard--it just makes people high and happy and that makes them tolerate their disease a little better. And, some studies which show efficacy from smoking marijuana have been replicated using other delivery systems of cannabis or cannabis isomers and they find the effect is lost, so there is clearly a placebo component to some of them.

2. I'm generally in favor of legalizing pot because I think the government probably shouldn't be prohibiting something so popular which isn't medically any worse than many legal substances, notably alcohol. Howeverrrrr......and this is a big one......you can make a good argument that alcohol and all of these substances should be illegal. Because of the serious health consequences, as @Jeremie Boop alludes to. IOW, the argument that pot is "safe" because it's "no worse than alcohol," isn't really a good argument, because in reality alcohol is very unsafe, or potentially so. People who overuse alcohol become extremely sick, addicted, and destroy their own lives and often the lives of others. Pot may be a little safer, but if it's legalized we will have many more abusers and many more people sick from it....cancer, sterility, brain damage, driving impaired, etc.

Still.....I'm more libertarian and would be happy if it were all legal. I think overall we'd be better off, although some people would destroy their lives, yes. There is only so much you can ask a government to do to protect people; you can't control everything.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Big Lex

[newtogolf]

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Let's discuss as friends...

1.In the department of quotes we may not know - “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with this country,” Trump said. “We’re really making other people live like kings, and we’re not.” He wasn’t interested in running for president back then, but that didn’t stop the mogul from predicting how he’d fare if he did enter the race. “I think I’d win,” Trump said. “I’ll tell you what: I wouldn’t go in to lose.”

That was Donald Trump in 1988 showing an interest in politics. Come to think of it, I think a lot of people wonder "If I were King..." probably most of us. Donald has the ego, drive and money to do it.

2. GW and Obama - I can't solely blame them as the Executives of the Country. Congress passes laws and resolutions, Prez lobbies for them or against them, either signs them or does not, he carries out the laws. If I was pointing the fickle finger of blame at someone, I would point it at the Party System. The Prez is the head of a Party. I just don't like the 2 party system. I point the second finger at Congress - get a backbone.

I remember after 2012 the GOP said we must grow more inclusive ... I guess it was a nice thought.

Trump talked about it, I talk about it but talking about it and actually starting an campaign fund and doing it are very different things.  If he was interested in politics, he could have run for Mayor or Governor of New York, he could have run for congressman or senator but he never made an effort to become a "politician" until now.  

As for GW and Obama, I agree, not everything that went wrong the last 16 years can be blamed on them but a good amount of it does.  When a company fails the CEO gets fired, if the federal government was run as a business Obama and GW would have been fired.

 

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

You've been around a little longer than me, and you clearly follow politics more than me, so you must realize that a version of this sentence gets repeated ad nauseum by about half of the country EVERY 4 years.  Yet, we're still here and ticking along strongly.

This statement is like the TaylorMade marketing of politics.  Every 3 months its "10 more yards! with the tech in this new driver," yet somehow, miraculously, we're not all hitting 1,200 yard drives at this point, so what gives?

Certainly there are ups and downs in various areas all of the time.  We take some steps forward and some steps back, but in general, we're usually going strong.

Maybe, just maybe, "big mess" is just being a hair hyperbolic?

I don't want to be chicken little screaming the sky is falling but the outlook isn't great.  We are under constant threat of terrorism.  Our government is using the threat of terrorism to reduce our rights to privacy and gun ownership.  Our military while still strong is lacking in areas such as the Navy and Air Force.  

Obama won't even say "ISIS" or acknowledge that at least 20% of 1.6 billion Muslims are radicalized and pro Sharia law.  Race relations have taken a step backward since Obama has been in office.  Illegal immigration is a huge issue and we're not any closer to a solution than we were 7 years ago. 

Our economy and the global economy is built on a foundation of crap thanks to qualitative easing.  We have more people not working and paying taxes than those that do.  People today have a greater sense of entitlement than ever before and candidates like Bernie exasperate the problem by promising free college educations.  

Business wise, we've lost our edge in manufacturing, too many of the high tech jobs that exist in this country are filled by H1-B visa from other countries.  We continue to over regulate and raise taxes on corporations that only incentives them to leave the country, like Apple.  Our children will likely be the first generation to have less opportunity that we had.  Banks are facing their next crisis with college loans and 6-7 year car loans.  

It's not all gloom and doom but we need a POTUS that is going to start to fix things and not just grow government to a bigger and less manageable blob of waste and abuse of tax payer money.  

[baller7345]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

 

Trump talked about it, I talk about it but talking about it and actually starting an campaign fund and doing it are very different things.  If he was interested in politics, he could have run for Mayor or Governor of New York, he could have run for congressman or senator but he never made an effort to become a "politician" until now. 

He was going to run on the reform ticket in 2000, until it became clear that the reform party wasn't going to cut it in a general election.  He even won two states in the reform party primaries.

[newtogolf]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

The ready availability of student loans PLUS the fact that banks are so willing to offer them because they cannot be excused means colleges do not have to compete on price.

That's the best single-sentence explanation for college costs being what they are that I've ever heard.

This is 100% accurate.  Once the government guaranteed student loans the colleges started raising their tuition and increasing their capacity.  

The same thing happened in the housing market when the government decided to back home mortgages for first time home buyers and certain demographics.  

Government intervention at its finest.  

[Braivo]

1 hour ago, Lugowskins said:

My thoughts on Sanders and why people around my age (I'm 26) are supporters. I went to college for one year I made the bad decision when I was 17 to attend a private college and that one year put me $22,000 in debt (after about 18K in scholarships and grants) everyone says we want free college NO we want AFFORDABLE college I think community college should be free and Universities and Private schools should make their tuition more reasonable so that graduates aren't crippled with debt for the next 30 years of their lives.

The second reason I am a huge supporter is the federal legalization of cannabis. 

Those of us that have been around a few more years understand that these are not the issues that are vital to the health of our nation, especially at the Presidential level. 

Bernie would make a great Dean at a university. 

[rehmwa]

58 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

This is 100% accurate.  Once the government guaranteed student loans the colleges started raising their tuition and increasing their capacity.  

The same thing happened in the housing market when the government decided to back home mortgages for first time home buyers and certain demographics.  

Government intervention at its finest.  

I agree -

1 - the target populace this was supposed to help were boxed out even worse

2 - throwing money at people to purchase a product from any industry - only increases the price - this is not rocket science

My daughter's university is a resort experience compared to when I went there 30 years ago.  The price reflects that too

[Ernest Jones]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

Marijuana?

They kept eating all the Nutella, it was very frustrating!

[14ledo81]

26 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

My daughter's university is a resort experience compared to when I went there 30 years ago.  The price reflects that too

No doubt.

I remember visiting my wife when she was in college.  She was cramped in a small room that had to have bunks to fit the two people living there.  The bathroom/showers were a community room at the end of the hall. 

Our company completed our work at a dorm at a state university about 3 years ago.  Each wing had separate suites, with a living room area, and bathrooms that had to be shared by 4-6 people, not 40.

[Abu3baid]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

 

Trump talked about it, I talk about it but talking about it and actually starting an campaign fund and doing it are very different things.  If he was interested in politics, he could have run for Mayor or Governor of New York, he could have run for congressman or senator but he never made an effort to become a "politician" until now.  

As for GW and Obama, I agree, not everything that went wrong the last 16 years can be blamed on them but a good amount of it does.  When a company fails the CEO gets fired, if the federal government was run as a business Obama and GW would have been fired.

 

I don't want to be chicken little screaming the sky is falling but the outlook isn't great.  We are under constant threat of terrorism.  Our government is using the threat of terrorism to reduce our rights to privacy and gun ownership.  Our military while still strong is lacking in areas such as the Navy and Air Force.  

Obama won't even say "ISIS" or acknowledge that at least 20% of 1.6 billion Muslims are radicalized and pro Sharia law.  Race relations have taken a step backward since Obama has been in office.  Illegal immigration is a huge issue and we're not any closer to a solution than we were 7 years ago. 

Our economy and the global economy is built on a foundation of crap thanks to qualitative easing.  We have more people not working and paying taxes than those that do.  People today have a greater sense of entitlement than ever before and candidates like Bernie exasperate the problem by promising free college educations.  

Business wise, we've lost our edge in manufacturing, too many of the high tech jobs that exist in this country are filled by H1-B visa from other countries.  We continue to over regulate and raise taxes on corporations that only incentives them to leave the country, like Apple.  Our children will likely be the first generation to have less opportunity that we had.  Banks are facing their next crisis with college loans and 6-7 year car loans.  

It's not all gloom and doom but we need a POTUS that is going to start to fix things and not just grow government to a bigger and less manageable blob of waste and abuse of tax payer money.  

20% Radicalized Muslims eh..  That amounts to what 320M people right?  That's a lot.

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-isis-state-of-the-union-2016-1

Quote

"If this Congress is serious about winning this war, and wants to send a message to our troops and the world, you should finally authorize the use of military force against ISIL," Obama said. "Take a vote."

Obama has made these appeals before. He asked Congress to authorize military force against ISIS in December. The current military campaign is going forward under the same legal authority granted by Congress in the wake of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on US soil.

 

[Jeremie Boop]

21 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

They kept eating all the Nutella, it was very frustrating!

Thanks for trivializing the effects I've seen to people I love with such a flippant response.

[Golfingdad]

37 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Thanks for trivializing the effects I've seen to people I love with such a flippant response.

We're talking about marijuana.  And what I was getting at with my original question was that I don't think it belongs in the same "drugs" category as the things I suspect you are talking about.

[Jeremie Boop]

19 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

We're talking about marijuana.  And what I was getting at with my original question was that I don't think it belongs in the same "drugs" category as the things I suspect you are talking about.

You weren't the one who made a flippant, dismissive comment. In my view/opinion, we really don't need to make more intoxicants legal. I know people don't think that marijuana is a gateway drug, but for every person I know that has done it they have also gone on to doing stronger drugs. Anecdotal, I know, but it's been my experience so it's what I have to go by. People also don't like the "slippery slope" argument but I feel like it would apply. I mean people say "but alcohol is legal" so it's not a stretch to imagine down the road they will use the same argument "but weed is legal" to push for something else. Now, that's not to say I'm going to get all up in arms if at some point it is legalized, because if that's what the people vote for then that's what's going to happen. I'd just prefer it didn't happen. Again, I really don't care to continue discussing this. I admit that I'm very biased against drugs and there really isn't anything that can be said to change that. It just really bothers me that one of the reasons people use for legalizing it is "but look how much money the taxes will bring in". And in all honesty, I'm only against recreational use legalization. Any legitimate medical use of it I've no problem with.

 

I apologize for not keeping out of the legalization discussion, though, because I know it really should be left to people who are much more objective about it.

[Golfingdad]

10 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

You weren't the one who made a flippant, dismissive comment. In my view/opinion, we really don't need to make more intoxicants legal. I know people don't think that marijuana is a gateway drug, but for every person I know that has done it they have also gone on to doing stronger drugs. Anecdotal, I know, but it's been my experience so it's what I have to go by. People also don't like the "slippery slope" argument but I feel like it would apply. I mean people say "but alcohol is legal" so it's not a stretch to imagine down the road they will use the same argument "but weed is legal" to push for something else. Now, that's not to say I'm going to get all up in arms if at some point it is legalized, because if that's what the people vote for then that's what's going to happen. I'd just prefer it didn't happen. Again, I really don't care to continue discussing this. I admit that I'm very biased against drugs and there really isn't anything that can be said to change that. It just really bothers me that one of the reasons people use for legalizing it is "but look how much money the taxes will bring in". And in all honesty, I'm only against recreational use legalization. Any legitimate medical use of it I've no problem with.

 

I apologize for not keeping out of the legalization discussion, though, because I know it really should be left to people who are much more objective about it.

There's nothing wrong with being passionate and biased about something.  The only issue I take with anything is lumping marijuana in with "drugs."  It's not.

And EJ's comment was only in regards to marijuana, he was not making a dismissive or flippant comment about whatever serious drug problems your friends have/had.

[Jeremie Boop]

It scares me that these are the options we have.... 

[newtogolf]

4 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

20% Radicalized Muslims eh..  That amounts to what 320M people right?  That's a lot.

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-isis-state-of-the-union-2016-1

 

The percentage is conservative and doesn't include Muslims who only support Sharia Law.   I've seen numbers that suggest there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today and that around 50% believe that Sharia law should be followed. 

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-worlds-muslims-radicalised/19899

[iacas]

Okay, yeah, this topic isn't about legalizing marijuana.

[rkim291968]

13 hours ago, krupa said:

People call Clinton "untrustworthy", "liar", "criminal" as if she's the only one.  As far as I can tell, those are just synonyms for "politician."

Mostly likely I'm voting Democrat because I think the Republican choices are just awful; Democratic choices are less awful.

The problems in Washington politics can't and won't be solved by the President.  Congress has a 15% approval rating but over 90% re-election rate and no term limits.  So what's the real problem here?  I have a personal policy that after a term or two, I vote against my incumbent representatives.  I don't care what party they are or who is running against them.  

+1.

 

14 hours ago, newtogolf said:

He's the least likely to win but most qualified out of who's left.  

Kasich seems to be the most presidential.  I like Sanders as a politician but he leans too far left and that will just divide US even more.

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, rkim291968 said:

+1.

 

Kasich seems to be the most presidential.  I like Sanders as a politician but he leans too far left and that will just divide US even more.

I think I'm too old to feel the "Bern" but I don't see the allure of a guy who was basically a bum until the age of 40 who then became a politician.