Jordan Spieth's Slow Play

[pumaAttack]

So far all of the posts defending Jordan state it's ok because it's a major and he needs time to think about his shot.  

But that's simply not true.  If it were, there wouldn't be a huge 1 hole gap between his group and the next.  Those players in front of him are playing for the same prize and don't take nearly as long. 

He is a slow player, period.  If it were Kevin Na in the lead taking this long, everyone would be criticizing the slow play.  

 

[nevets88]

Have Spieth and Day ever been paired? I'm guessing that's going to be a slow twosome.

[Ernest Jones]

I watched the first 6 holes of the final pairing live and then pvr-ed (is that a word?) the remainder to watch after the bambinos were in bed. Slow play and whiskey had me out cold by the 13th hole. Did they hole out 18 within the scheduled broadcast time or did it go over? I figure as long as the final pairing is in the clubhouse before the end of the scheduled broadcast time (barring playoffs) than its fast enough. It's not like I'm standing in the fairway cursing the hackers in front of me for messing up my rhythm. Plus, once pvr-ed, I can cut that 4:30 down significantly.

[bkuehn1952]

Jordan Spieth did seem rather deliberate.  One can only hope that golfers watching the Masters don't become influenced by his meticulous pre-shot and pre-putt routine.

[jkelley9]

16 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Jordan Spieth did seem rather deliberate.  One can only hope that golfers watching the Masters don't become influenced by his meticulous pre-shot and pre-putt routine.

That's why this is really tough, because when he takes all that time to read those putts, hit those shots... he's delivering. He's almost breaking down walls in stats. He has created a successful, repeatable pre-shot routine. A lot of people would agree he is above the field in any tournament because of just how consistently he is in contention time and time again. 

Can you imagine some timing rule that came in to "speed up play" and Jordan became a noticeably worse player...? Nobody wants that. We want to see a shift in stats, we want to see a new great. Coupling the quality of a golf shot in short period being mandated... it could really be a diluting factor; "well I've got the most GIR per minute of pre-shot routine..." but Jordan's thinking "yea but if I had 15 more seconds per shot, I would crush you." Which is more entertaining? 

[Dave2512]

Little bit different playing for what could be career defining tournaments. We can't use our no pressure stroll through our muni as the baseline for how quick golf can be played by a twosome.

If Jordan wins back to back Masters he would join an elite group. His performance in this tournament could affect his entire season. Nobody here has a clue what that feels like. He has bigger concerns than being quick. 

[mcanadiens]

Some non-golf guys on ESPN Radio are absolutely killing Jordan this morning.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

Have Spieth and Day ever been paired? I'm guessing that's going to be a slow twosome.

The last major played. The 2015 PGA Championship. 

[tdiii]

8 hours ago, freshmanUTA said:

Honestly realize this: 

These aren't amateurs spending their Saturday on a public course, they're competing for a purse of 10mil. So yeah, every shot matters, and it might take a couple minutes to strategize on a course of these conditions.

Yes.  And everyone in front was doing exactly that, yet he fell behind more than a full hole.  So, among a bunch of slow play, he was even slower. 

I saw the funniest thing yesterday on the Amen Corner broadcast.  Kevin Na, who is outrageously slow, botches 13 eventually taking a 7.  His last three strokes:  a putt from behind the hole that ended up at the bottom of the green near the creek.  He is absolutely disgusted with himself.  Follows the ball down to the hole.  It settles, he stands over it, the commentators remark that he's not even marking the ball, and lo and behold putts to 18" from 50'.  Still disgusted with himself, he walks up and, again without marking the ball, brushes it in.  3 shots within less than 45 seconds.  The last 2, where he took no time, and basically had to rely on muscle memory, were perfectly executed.  There's a lesson there. 

The wind was a nightmare for everyone.  It wasn't any windier for Spieth than it was for anyone else.  The course wasn't any more brutal to Spieth than it was for anyone else. 

The fact that so many of you are apologists for his slow play I think sheds a light on why it is so pernicious.  There's always an excuse or explanation when it is your guy, or when you are playing your own ball. 

I was tongue in cheek with the post that he's dead to me.  I think he's an awesome player and am stunned at his ability to manage success like this at this age.  But the slow play is irritating, it happened yesterday and it happened the day before.  Again:  He is slow as compared to the field playing the same course.  And it is not as if the PGA Tour, as a group, is playing quickly. 

[Gator Hazard]

Interestingly I see very good and valid points for both sides of this argument. There were a few times where hollered at Spieth to stop backing off three times a put before actually hitting it but I can also understand taking a little more time. 

[newtogolf]

Some say Jordan and Rory fell behind more than a hole, which is about 15 minutes, so everyone else played in 4:15 and Jordan and Rory took 4:30, not quite a big enough reason to hate him.  

I knew pace of play would be an issue because Rory is longer than Jordan and that would mean Jordan would have to hit first on every 2nd shot, as it turned out Rory also didn't play very well which resulted in Jordan teeing off first most of the round.  

Spieth is going to have a slower round when he has to hit his 2nd shot first, he and his caddie discuss the shot a lot and without the extra time he'd get with someone hitting in front of him he was going to use more time.  Rory looked faster because Spieth took so much time taking his shot it gave Rory more than enough time to discuss what he was going to do, especially on putts. 

[Mr. Desmond]

27 minutes ago, tdiii said:

Yes.  And everyone in front was doing exactly that, yet he fell behind more than a full hole.  So, among a bunch of slow play, he was even slower. 

I saw the funniest thing yesterday on the Amen Corner broadcast.  Kevin Na, who is outrageously slow, botches 13 eventually taking a 7.  His last three strokes:  a putt from behind the hole that ended up at the bottom of the green near the creek.  He is absolutely disgusted with himself.  Follows the ball down to the hole.  It settles, he stands over it, the commentators remark that he's not even marking the ball, and lo and behold putts to 18" from 50'.  Still disgusted with himself, he walks up and, again without marking the ball, brushes it in.  3 shots within less than 45 seconds.  The last 2, where he took no time, and basically had to rely on muscle memory, were perfectly executed.  There's a lesson there. 

The wind was a nightmare for everyone.  It wasn't any windier for Spieth than it was for anyone else.  The course wasn't any more brutal to Spieth than it was for anyone else. 

The fact that so many of you are apologists for his slow play I think sheds a light on why it is so pernicious.  There's always an excuse or explanation when it is your guy, or when you are playing your own ball. 

Kevin Na is T49 at the end of the 3rd round and shot 85.

Spieth leads and shot 73.

 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Mr. Desmond

[tdiii]

Just now, Mr. Desmond said:

Kevin Na is T49 at the end of the 3rd round and shot 85.

Spieth leads and shot 73.

 

Yes, but no counter to the more important point that Spieth played the same course in the same conditions as all his competitors but took 15 minutes longer. 

[Coronagolfman]

11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

He's only been around a couple of years, and he's already dead to you? You seem like a fickle sort.

You have a point, Rainmaker. I think the Masters has let the greens get a just a little out of hand this year. They know the weather forecast just as well as anyone else. Put a little water on the greens in the evening, or early morning, to keep them in bounds! I remember an article I read, years ago, that criticized the Masters committee for letting the greens get too freaky. What the Masters lost, as he put it, were the earth shaking cheers on the back nine from golfers making a charge! Isn't it the stuff of legend that the Masters doesn't start until the back nine on Sunday?

Did anyone other than me notice how many people laid up on 13 and 15? Or who went for the green and got nothing for it? Going for the green on these holes used to be routine. This year, especially with the wind, you could be severely punished.

No more evidence needs be presented than a ball "blowing" off the green! Are you kidding me? I used to hear some criticisms of courses on "The Open Championship" rota, whose greens weren't rolling at 99 on the Stimp! It was explained, by a Brit, that they would slow their greens down because of the wind they could encounter there. They didn't want ball being blown off the greens, and took measures to avoid it.

You make a good point. It will be interesting to see if Augusta waters the greens otherwise the typical Sunday pin placements on many of the holes might be near unplayable (13 and 15 in particular as you note)

Spieth does take a lot of time on the greens when it is his turn to play - it might catch up with him somewhere down the road (Oakmont greens are notorious for generating slow play as well as Augusta)

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, tdiii said:

Yes, but no counter to the more important point that Spieth played the same course in the same conditions as all his competitors but took 15 minutes longer. 

So you're going to hate one of the best young golfers of our generation because he took  and additional 15 minutes to play a very difficult course in very difficult conditions while trying to defend his victory from last year?  

Seems a bit harsh and short sighted, I don't know if you realize this but high school football and basketball games don't take 3+ hours and high school baseball doesn't take 4 hours so overall I'd say professionals play slower at every non-timed sport.  

I will agree Jordan is developing some concerning habits in that he is over analyzing more and stepping back from address more than he did last year.  I think it's a mental crutch to "feel" better about the shot but it's definitely something I see him doing more this season than I remember him doing last year.  

[Dave2512]

14 minutes ago, tdiii said:

Yes, but no counter to the more important point that Spieth played the same course in the same conditions as all his competitors but took 15 minutes longer. 

I think we can afford an extra 15 minutes watching his attempt at cementing himself in the history of golf. There is nobody holding a gun to our heads forcing us to watch. When its done most here continue to watch the talking heads analyse it to death. 

[tdiii]

Just now, newtogolf said:

So you're going to hate one of the best young golfers of our generation because he took  and additional 15 minutes to play a very difficult course in very difficult conditions while trying to defend his victory from last year?  

Seems a bit harsh and short sighted, I don't know if you realize this but high school football and basketball games don't take 3+ hours and high school baseball doesn't take 4 hours so overall I'd say professionals play slower at every non-timed sport.  

I will agree Jordan is developing some concerning habits in that he is over analyzing more and stepping back from address more than he did last year.  I think it's a mental crutch to "feel" better about the shot but it's definitely something I see him doing more this season than I remember him doing last year.  

Are you deliberately ignoring my comment that I like the kid a lot?  It is not an additional 15 minutes.  It is an additioal 15 minutes on top of an already very slow pace.  And the entire world is watching with a lot of golfers emulating this crap. 

HS football and basketball play a shorter game (fewer minutes), with fewer TV timeouts.  The length of the games have nothing to do with a slower pace.  And, yes, MLB is suffering for its worsening pace of play issues.  A game in the 1970s took less than 2:30.  Now it is 3:00.  And fan interest is declining. 

[nevets88]

48 minutes ago, iacas said:

The last major played. The 2015 PGA Championship. 

Totally forgot already. Now it's coming back. It didn't feel that slow then. Probably because of the drama that made me overlook the time.

Speith backed off a lot because of the wind. I don't recall him doing that at the PGA.