Orlando Gay Night Club Shooting

[drmevo]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I'm not sure what parts are disconnected from reality? The issue is we have fanatics who are willing to take other people's lives and their own in the process to make some kind of "point".

We have to stop it at the source, and I disagree with an all out attack with ISIS. It will likely happen and many innocent people will be killed which will just fuel more hatred for our country. This action will just make us terrorists to them.

Gun laws will not stop them. Killing the current leadership or organizations will not stop them. IDK what we can do in the current situation? It's tough, and there are no simple answers. If that's disconnected from reality then IDK what to say?

I guess I meant the weird musings about robotic security guards and snipers in the context of this discussion.  Saying the guards/police were complacent, and now that this has happened they will somehow be more able to handle such situations.  

[Dave2512]

Just now, Lihu said:

So true. The gunman in this attack was trained. He was on a "hot list". IDK how he slipped through? It seems like tightened security that Trump wants is going to help even if only a little bit.

No it's not a lack of security someone was asleep at the wheel. More doesn't mean better people just need to do their freakin' jobs. Guy was trying to buy body armor a few days ago. He was basically telegraphing what he might do via his behavior and someone let him slide and people died. No point in trying to deter something if there isn't any enforcement.

[Lihu]

18 minutes ago, drmevo said:

I guess I meant the weird musings about robotic security guards and snipers in the context of this discussion.  Saying the guards/police were complacent, and now that this has happened they will somehow be more able to handle such situations.  

Oh, that's real.

Many large military contractors are all working on the basic systems for robotic sentries and soldiers of course. This is pretty scary stuff, but it's events like this that drives it into reality. You can't fight a war against terrorists with large scale attack weapons like 2000 pound smart bombs. You need to have something that meanders into an area without worrying about getting killed and shoot at anything shooting at it, and can run intelligence back to the human soldiers. Even worse is that they're really not that smart.

Robots are not very smart at all, but they have the ability to detect infrared traces and when a bullet impacts the shell and what direction they came. War is not accurate, there's a lot of collateral damage, but this will lessen it from the era of smart bombs. They don't even have to work that well. They just have to kill less innocent people than bombing raids. . .

One of these could have taken out the shooter, while possibly taking out a couple innocent lives. All in all it could have reduced the overall death toll.

The police are very well trained, if they are aware of a current threat. The issue is we get complacent when nothing happens. This is a natural thing.

[14ledo81]

2 hours ago, drmevo said:

I guess I meant the weird musings about robotic security guards and snipers in the context of this discussion.  Saying the guards/police were complacent, and now that this has happened they will somehow be more able to handle such situations.  

Did you know @Lihu makes robots for a living?

[Ernest Jones]

2 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Did you know @Lihu makes robots for a living?

And weird musings as a hobby?

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

No it's not a lack of security someone was asleep at the wheel. More doesn't mean better people just need to do their freakin' jobs. Guy was trying to buy body armor a few days ago. He was basically telegraphing what he might do via his behavior and someone let him slide and people died. No point in trying to deter something if there isn't any enforcement.

This exactly, now we're hearing from the ex-wife that she accompanied the shooter to downtown Disney to scope that out as a potential target, his co-workers all have stories about how unstable he was and we find out his dad was anti-American.  Seems collectively there were a lot of red flags that people looked the other way on, not to mention the massive screw up the FBI made by allowing this guy to purchase guns and become a armed security guard despite being investigated twice.  

[Lihu]

27 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

And weird musings as a hobby?

Absolutely! Although, "weird" is not strong enough a word for my musings. . .

 

More on the LA "copycat". http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

Not likely associated with ISIS, though.

Quote

Police identified the suspect as James Wesley Howell of Indiana. A Facebook page for someone with the same name in Indiana shows a young man posing next to a white Acura with the same license plate as the car searched in Santa Monica for the weapons and explosives.

Apparently, his intentions were unknown.

[drmevo]

51 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Did you know @Lihu makes robots for a living?

Ah, I did not, that part of it makes more sense now that I know that. 

I still don't get some of the rest of the post, but I'll leave it at that. 

 

[Dave2512]

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

This exactly, now we're hearing from the ex-wife that she accompanied the shooter to downtown Disney to scope that out as a potential target, his co-workers all have stories about how unstable he was and we find out his dad was anti-American.  Seems collectively there were a lot of red flags that people looked the other way on, not to mention the massive screw up the FBI made by allowing this guy to purchase guns and become a armed security guard despite being investigated twice.  

Yes freakin'' seriously, I read the FBI watched  him for ten months then closed his file. They have detailed history on this one and someone deemed him fit it's crazy. 

 

[nevets88]

42 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Yes freakin'' seriously, I read the FBI watched  him for ten months then closed his file. They have detailed history on this one and someone deemed him fit it's crazy. 

 

 

 

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, drmevo said:

Ah, I did not, that part of it makes more sense now that I know that. 

I still don't get some of the rest of the post, but I'll leave it at that. 

 

The rest is just me rambling on. . .

Seriously, though. Nothing we do will deter people like this from killing innocent people. The root of the problem is not something we can fix overnight.

It's truly horrible.

[Buckeyebowman]

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Oh, that's real.

Many large military contractors are all working on the basic systems for robotic sentries and soldiers of course. This is pretty scary stuff, but it's events like this that drives it into reality. You can't fight a war against terrorists with large scale attack weapons like 2000 pound smart bombs. You need to have something that meanders into an area without worrying about getting killed and shoot at anything shooting at it, and can run intelligence back to the human soldiers. Even worse is that they're really not that smart.

Robots are not very smart at all, but they have the ability to detect infrared traces and when a bullet impacts the shell and what direction they came. War is not accurate, there's a lot of collateral damage, but this will lessen it from the era of smart bombs. They don't even have to work that well. They just have to kill less innocent people than bombing raids. . .

One of these could have taken out the shooter, while possibly taking out a couple innocent lives. All in all it could have reduced the overall death toll.

The police are very well trained, if they are aware of a current threat. The issue is we get complacent when nothing happens. This is a natural thing.

You can consider this an offshoot of the "drone" program. Where an unmanned aircraft can carry out attacks upon our enemies. If the drone is shot down it's a monetary loss, but there are no human consequences. Robot warfare!

There are technologies being researched that we have no idea of! Only because I saw it on TV am I aware that the military is researching "exoskeletons" for ground troops. It's like a human straps himself inside a robot and can haul 200lb loads up a 45* slope like a walk in the park!

Where do you think GPS came from? It was a military project!

3 hours ago, Lihu said:

Absolutely! Although, "weird" is not strong enough a word for my musings. . .

 

More on the LA "copycat". http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

Not likely associated with ISIS, though.

Apparently, his intentions were unknown.

Yeah! It's amazing how all these so called "security" agencies know about these folks, yet they fail to provide any security! What do we pay them for?

[saevel25]

10 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Yes freakin'' seriously, I read the FBI watched  him for ten months then closed his file. They have detailed history on this one and someone deemed him fit it's crazy. 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/omar-mateen-fbi-investigated-224266

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/omar-mateen-fbi.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-had-closely-scrutinized-the-orlando-shooter-before-dropping-investigation/2016/06/13/838e9054-3177-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html

The primary issue is due process and what legally can the FBI do. Should he have been put on the "no fly" list? Probably. The FBI found no evidence other than he made extreme comments to freak out his co-workers. They could not find any evidence about him having communication with any terrorist group. 

 

 

[Mr. Desmond]

News is that the Orlando shooter was a member of gay dating sites and was a somewhat regular at the Pulse club. His ex-wife claims to have left him for "abuse" and said he had "gay tendencies." Apparently, he was a loner. His father, according to translators, is incoherent. One man says he witnessed his father callhing Mateen gay. Trust a father who claims to be the Afghan President? Does any of this sound somewhat familiar?

It's obvious the guy was mentally ill, and may have suffered from an internal conflict regarding his sexuality. His religion forbade his homosexuality, and as a result, he thought he could not be a member of that sexual community. So was it resentment of gays living the lifestyle he wanted? Perhaps he wanted to prove something to himself?

Now that he may have been (in the closet) gay, will ISIS say their account was hacked and they don't take credit for a gay man gunning down 49 people and injuring another 52?

Wonder who the FBI interviewed and it seems we need more psychologists as agents. This shooter had trouble written all over his background. But then, what is the balance? What is their duty other than to say this guy is mentally screwed up, owns guns, but hasn't shown any jihadist tendencies? 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Mr. Desmond

[Lihu]

29 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/omar-mateen-fbi-investigated-224266

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/omar-mateen-fbi.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-had-closely-scrutinized-the-orlando-shooter-before-dropping-investigation/2016/06/13/838e9054-3177-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html

The primary issue is due process and what legally can the FBI do. Should he have been put on the "no fly" list? Probably. The FBI found no evidence other than he made extreme comments to freak out his co-workers. They could not find any evidence about him having communication with any terrorist group. 

It was his first amendment right to have done so. You can't tell the difference between a crackpot and a potential threat.

[Braivo]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

News is that the Orlando shooter was a member of gay dating sites and was a somewhat regular at the Pulse club. His ex-wife claims to have left him for "abuse" and said he had "gay tendencies." Apparently, he was a loner. His father, according to translators, is incoherent. One man says he witnessed his father callhing Mateen gay. Trust a father who claims to be the Afghan President? Does any of this sound somewhat familiar?

It's obvious the guy was mentally ill, and may have suffered from an internal conflict regarding his sexuality. His religion forbade his homosexuality, and as a result, he thought he could not be a member of that sexual community. So was it resentment of gays living the lifestyle he wanted? Perhaps he wanted to prove something to himself?

Now that he may have been (in the closet) gay, will ISIS say their account was hacked and they don't take credit for a gay man gunning down 49 people and injuring another 52?

Wonder who the FBI interviewed and it seems we need more psychologists as agents. This shooter had trouble written all over his background. But then, what is the balance? What is their duty other than to say this guy is mentally screwed up, owns guns, but hasn't shown any jihadist tendencies? 

I agree, we need to win the information and psychological war. 

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

News is that the Orlando shooter was a member of gay dating sites and was a somewhat regular at the Pulse club. His ex-wife claims to have left him for "abuse" and said he had "gay tendencies." Apparently, he was a loner. His father, according to translators, is incoherent. One man says he witnessed his father callhing Mateen gay. Trust a father who claims to be the Afghan President? Does any of this sound somewhat familiar?

It's obvious the guy was mentally ill, and may have suffered from an internal conflict regarding his sexuality. His religion forbade his homosexuality, and as a result, he thought he could not be a member of that sexual community. So was it resentment of gays living the lifestyle he wanted? Perhaps he wanted to prove something to himself?

Now that he may have been (in the closet) gay, will ISIS say their account was hacked and they don't take credit for a gay man gunning down 49 people and injuring another 52?

Wonder who the FBI interviewed and it seems we need more psychologists as agents. This shooter had trouble written all over his background. But then, what is the balance? What is their duty other than to say this guy is mentally screwed up, owns guns, but hasn't shown any jihadist tendencies? 

It's not a crime to be gay, own guns and be mentally ill.

 

We don't need a larger government to watch over us "better". We just need a means to stop people soon enough when they do commit a crime.

[mcanadiens]

Ever hear the saying "freedom isn't free".

We could ask the feds to chase down and deal with everyone that seems "off", ever spoke of anti-social ideas or appears that he might do something down the line for whatever reason. If we actually get to that point, we no longer have freedom.

As terrible as all these sort of incidents are, I don't want to see our country become some sort of police state. A bit of a social misfit, I might not have every made it past school.