Which wines do you prefer?

[boogielicious]

31 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Very true. I have had spectacular wines ruined because the meal clashed with it.

Yeah, Belle Glos makes really good wines. Clark & Telephone was fantastic. My sister is a sommelier so I always get to sample outrageously good wines whenever I visit! She's super fun to go to the liquor store with too, because the clerks basically drop whatever they're doing and bring us in the back to sample all their best new arrivals. 

Awesome. My son manages a liquor store. He knows nothing about wines other than what sells the best. I gave him the Wine Bible, but he never did like studying. 

[carpediem4300]

24 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

That is a good region. It was kind of 'undiscovered country' up until a few years ago when they started exporting more to the US so we could try them. 

Its certainly my favourite, Carcassone and Limoux are thriving at the minute with tourism because they are only an hour away from the coast and hotels/campsites are cheaper than the beachside area's, there also alot of heritage and castles etc. I was talking to a wine producer there last year and besides the increase in tourism there was a grape famine in the 19th century and the tried to replace the vines with american rootstock but it didnt take so affected output for a number of years, but its slowly making a resurgence and i can see why, that probably caused the lack of export since the wars as the new vines have only really taken since the middle of the second world war

[Marty2019]

49 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

That is a good region. It was kind of 'undiscovered country' up until a few years ago when they started exporting more to the US so we could try them. 

It's beautiful.   We were over there two years ago.  Rented a car and drove around for a week.  Mile after mile of vineyards, ancient towns, Roman ruins, really beautiful area. 

Our friends there have a small vineyard near Montpellier.  They're not serious farmers, they just bought the place, cleared all the weeds, and found vineyards, olive trees, fig trees.  They take the grapes to a local place that squeezes the juice or whatever, and they make about 7,000 bottles of wine a year.   They can't market it at all, because 7,000 bottles is just not enough to do anything with.  Even the local stores have told them, 20,000 bottles is the minimum to put your wine in our store.  So they're just storing all this wine, with no idea what to do with it. 

We looked into what it would take to get their wine into the US, learned all the rules and regulations, inspections, middlemen who have to be paid off, and so forth.  It's just financially impossible to do anything with 7,000 bottles of wine a year.   Their wine is pretty average, not worth more than $10 or $15 a bottle, and if they sold it for that, they would wind up with about $1 a bottle for themselves after paying all the fees, middlemen, etc.   Just not worth it. 

So they're sitting on all this wine, no idea what to do with it. 

 

 

[carpediem4300]

8 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

It's beautiful.   We were over there two years ago.  Rented a car and drove around for a week.  Mile after mile of vineyards, ancient towns, Roman ruins, really beautiful area. 

Our friends there have a small vineyard near Montpellier.  They're not serious farmers, they just bought the place, cleared all the weeds, and found vineyards, olive trees, fig trees.  They take the grapes to a local place that squeezes the juice or whatever, and they make about 7,000 bottles of wine a year.   They can't market it at all, because 7,000 bottles is just not enough to do anything with.  Even the local stores have told them, 20,000 bottles is the minimum to put your wine in our store.  So they're just storing all this wine, with no idea what to do with it. 

We looked into what it would take to get their wine into the US, learned all the rules and regulations, inspections, middlemen who have to be paid off, and so forth.  It's just financially impossible to do anything with 7,000 bottles of wine a year.   Their wine is pretty average, not worth more than $10 or $15 a bottle, and if they sold it for that, they would wind up with about $1 a bottle for themselves after paying all the fees, middlemen, etc.   Just not worth it. 

So they're sitting on all this wine, no idea what to do with it. 

 

 

Well for one $7k dollars for making 7,000 bottles of wine is not a massive return, but it is indeed $7k more than they are currently making.

They could also try advertising the wine, doing wine tasting is great way to get adhoc orders, when im over Carcasonne/Narbone way I'll drink local shop bought wine for the duration but the last two days I'll go around the local vineyards themselves, sample a few and buy direct, I gather alot of tourists and indeed french locals actually buy this way, usually in bulk

Edited November 22, 2016 by carpediem4300
typo

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/18/2016 at 11:55 AM, billchao said:

Pinot noir can taste totally different from one vineyard to another right across the street. Even the same producer cannot make the same tasting wine from year to year due to weather conditions. It's heavily affected by terroir and one of my favorite varietals.

I sold fine wine for 25+ years, and Pinot Noir is my absolute favorite! The best wine I ever tasted in my life was a 1961 Savigny les Beaune, Vergelesse, bottled by the  Hospice de Beaune.  This is a Pinot Noir from the Burgundy region of France.

As billchao said, Pinot Noir can be an extremely fidgety grape to deal with. Not just growing it, but turning it into wine.

As far as taste goes, I had some customers who were just bonkers over Cabernet or Merlot based wines, but would turn up their noses at Pinot Noir based wines. They just didn't have a Pinot oriented palate!

.

 

[GolfLug]

Like all reds that have medium to low acidity and soft tannins (Merlots, Malbecs and Pinot Noirs). I find most white wines too 'crisp' but have had many that I did like. If a wine is described as round and medium bodied, chances are I will like it. Can't stand overly sweet wines.

I am learning to like Cab Sauvs but working on liking the oakiness and harder tannins..:-)

[phillyk]

I've been leaning toward red wines recently, but I drink both.  I like merlot the most.  I've started using nakedwines as my source for wine.  I haven't had a bad wine selection from them yet.  But I also buy from the store if something catches my eye.  More specifically, I like the Chateau Ste Michelle Indian Wells Merlot.  It's very good!

[tdiii]

I live in Sonoma County.  With several hundred wineries within 20 minutes of my house, I don't really try many WA, OR, French, Italian, or even Napa Valley wines. 

I like most varietals -- really depends on the day, what it is presented with, the quality, etc.  I am not a fan of most merlots, syrahs, and cab francs.  Love petite sirah, cabernet, pinot, zin and malbec.  With whites, I don't like the oaked and/or butter chardonnays -- I like the stainless ones best -- Matanzas Creek (2 minutes from my house), is nice and pretty widely distributed.  Not really a fan of sweet whites so usually not a huge gewurtz fan, although I had a Halleck Gewurtztraminer this past weekend which was excellent. 

Someone mentioned Silver Oak above for cab.  I sadly think it has slipped in the past decade or so, but it is still really good.  Just not the price/value bargain it was several years ago.  I prefer the Alexander Valley over the Napa and always have -- a bit softer on the palate, at least for me.  Several years ago, I received a double magnum (i.e., 4 bottles) of Napa 1997 Cab from a broker as a thank you for a deal I'd worked on.  I babied it for many years but it was corked when I opened it in 2007 or 2008 -- heartbreaking. In any event, Jordan's cab, also from Alexander Valley, is pretty good and a bit less expensive.  Over in Napa, Sequoia Grove is pretty widely distributed and a better value play than Stag's Leap, Mondavi and some of the other big boys.  A tiny producer over there to check out is Trujillo.  Awesome stuff. 

I cannot really say I prefer California Pinot over OR, but I know California's better.  I'm not a huge fan of Carneros Pinots, but usually like Russian River, Sonoma Coast and Anderson Valley (which actually is in Mendocino County) if they are made well and the year is not tough.  I've liked many Central coast wines, but just don't have a lot of familiarity.  Generally, you can't go wrong with Kosta Browne, Paul Hobbs, and Williams Selyem.  Had a great one this past weekend from Claypool Cellars (Les Claypool of Primus fame).

Dry Creek Valley, outside Healdsburg, is home to some of the best Zinfandel in the world.  Rafanelli is pretty amazing stuff.  Bella Vineyards makes some great zins and is a really fun place to visit.  Wilson, which probably is not distributed widely, makes a bunch of nice wines.  St. Francis, although not in Dry Creek, makes a great, reasonably priced zinfandel that is readily available in most markets (all its stuff is great quality and price competitive).  Many producers, unfortunately, are letting the sugars and consequently alcohol levels get too high and those zins are too hot for me. With all that said, Turley over in Napa may make the best zins there are. 

I am pretty fond of bubbly.  We have several good producers in the region although the one that comes closest to approaching French quality is Domaine Carneros in Napa.  Iron Horse, outside Sebastopol, is pretty good and also a fun place to visit.  But, sadly, California cannot really do the job as well as the French so if I'm drinking champagne it will generally be French and probably a Brut Rose.  Billecart Salmon is my go-to brut rose.  I write that like I drink it daily -- maybe twice a year. 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by tdiii

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:07 AM, GolfLug said:

Like all reds that have medium to low acidity and soft tannins (Merlots, Malbecs and Pinot Noirs). I find most white wines too 'crisp' but have had many that I did like. If a wine is described as round and medium bodied, chances are I will like it. Can't stand overly sweet wines.

I am learning to like Cab Sauvs but working on liking the oakiness and harder tannins..:-)

As far as the oakiness and harder tannins goes, you are probably dealing with younger wines. That's what you will get if that's how the winery wants their wines to be. Wineries can pretty much "design" how they want their wines to taste, but a lot of it can depend on the weather during the growing season. How the grapes turn out.

Silver Oak, Alexander Valley, back in the day is a case in point. Rich, opulent fruit, low tannin, and lots of vanilla tinged, new toasty oak made for a Cab ready to drink as soon as it hit the store shelf! Then, it seemed they changed their minds and wanted a wine that would last a bit longer than 3 to 4 years. So, suddenly, a bit more tannin and acidity started showing up.

I will say this, no "ready to drink" wine will ever surpass one that is built to age and is given the opportunity to do so! The best red wine I ever tasted was 29 years old. The best California Cab I ever had was an older Heitz Martha's Vineyard that was at least 20 years old, and had an alcohol content of 12.5%, as did most California Cabs of that era.

Look at the alcohol content of California Cabs now. They're all from 13.5 to 14.5%! These wines are not really age worthy, but are meant to drink sooner rather than later.

[boogielicious]

10 hours ago, tdiii said:

I live in Sonoma County.  With several hundred wineries within 20 minutes of my house, I don't really try many WA, OR, French, Italian, or even Napa Valley wines. 

I like most varietals -- really depends on the day, what it is presented with, the quality, etc.  I am not a fan of most merlots, syrahs, and cab francs.  Love petite sirah, cabernet, pinot, zin and malbec.  With whites, I don't like the oaked and/or butter chardonnays -- I like the stainless ones best -- Matanzas Creek (2 minutes from my house), is nice and pretty widely distributed.  Not really a fan of sweet whites so usually not a huge gewurtz fan, although I had a Halleck Gewurtztraminer this past weekend which was excellent. 

Someone mentioned Silver Oak above for cab.  I sadly think it has slipped in the past decade or so, but it is still really good.  Just not the price/value bargain it was several years ago.  I prefer the Alexander Valley over the Napa and always have -- a bit softer on the palate, at least for me.  Several years ago, I received a double magnum (i.e., 4 bottles) of Napa 1997 Cab from a broker as a thank you for a deal I'd worked on.  I babied it for many years but it was corked when I opened it in 2007 or 2008 -- heartbreaking. In any event, Jordan's cab, also from Alexander Valley, is pretty good and a bit less expensive.  Over in Napa, Sequoia Grove is pretty widely distributed and a better value play than Stag's Leap, Mondavi and some of the other big boys.  A tiny producer over there to check out is Trujillo.  Awesome stuff. 

I cannot really say I prefer California Pinot over OR, but I know California's better.  I'm not a huge fan of Carneros Pinots, but usually like Russian River, Sonoma Coast and Anderson Valley (which actually is in Mendocino County) if they are made well and the year is not tough.  I've liked many Central coast wines, but just don't have a lot of familiarity.  Generally, you can't go wrong with Kosta Browne, Paul Hobbs, and Williams Selyem.  Had a great one this past weekend from Claypool Cellars (Les Claypool of Primus fame).

Dry Creek Valley, outside Healdsburg, is home to some of the best Zinfandel in the world.  Rafanelli is pretty amazing stuff.  Bella Vineyards makes some great zins and is a really fun place to visit.  Wilson, which probably is not distributed widely, makes a bunch of nice wines.  St. Francis, although not in Dry Creek, makes a great, reasonably priced zinfandel that is readily available in most markets (all its stuff is great quality and price competitive).  Many producers, unfortunately, are letting the sugars and consequently alcohol levels get too high and those zins are too hot for me. With all that said, Turley over in Napa may make the best zins there are. 

I am pretty fond of bubbly.  We have several good producers in the region although the one that comes closest to approaching French quality is Domaine Carneros in Napa.  Iron Horse, outside Sebastopol, is pretty good and also a fun place to visit.  But, sadly, California cannot really do the job as well as the French so if I'm drinking champagne it will generally be French and probably a Brut Rose.  Billecart Salmon is my go-to brut rose.  I write that like I drink it daily -- maybe twice a year. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll keep and eye out for some of these. Local knowledge helps. My issue with wine recommendations from magazines and apps is they are not always distributed everywhere. 

[Elrey Desol]

i work in the industry (small winery in Sonoma) and am happy to answer any questions ya'll might have w/ regard to wine from NorCal and the Central Coast.

current favorite producers:

En Garde - Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir
Mauritson - Zinfandel
Bedrock Wine Co. - Zinfandel, Blends
Joseph Swan - Pinot Noir, Chardonnay
Benovia - Pinot Noir, Grenache
Pangloss - Pinot Noir, GSM, Chenin Blanc
Pine Ridge - Chenin Blanc/Viognier Blend
Iron Horse - Bubbles
Corison - Cabernet Sauvingon
MacLaren - Syrah

[NCGolfer]

Where to start...I'm definitely a red fan.  I gravitate towards Pinots and am amazed at the difference between Oregon/Willamette, Sonoma and European varietals.  Someone mentioned (spot on) that European/French tend to be more earthy.  Oregon Pinots also have those traits and are very good value.  Probably my favorites would be:

• Kings Estate (Oregon, mid-priced)
• Beaux Freres (Oregon, pricey but awesome)
• Flowers (Sonoma, slightly pricey but very good)
• La Crema (Have both Sonoma and Oregon varieties, lower-priced...a good go-to Pinot)

I just visited the Piemonte area of Italy and did a day-long tour of Barolo, Barbaresco and Roero.  My goodness was it amazing...both food (truffles!) and the wine.  Barolos are excellent if aged properly (heavy tannins) but there is no shortage of great wine from that region...Docettos, Barberas.  Some very good whites as well. 

I have a few wines in my wine fridge waiting for consumption that I can't wait to evaluate.  A nice Margaux, Stag's Leap Cab, Brunello, more Pinots, Barolo's from my trip...can't wait.

One plug for Spanish wine too.  I go to Spain often for work and, honestly, am never disappointed with any red wine I have while i'm there.  Rioja and Ribero del Duero are excellent, drinkable reds that everyone should try.

Whites? Its not that I don't like them, I just prefer red.  My wife and I do have them often.  She's a Sauvignon Blanc fan.  I'm not a fan of the ones from Marlborough (New Zealand)...heavy on the grapefruit/peach flavors.  Sancerre from the Loire Valley in France is really, really good.  A bit smoother and richer on the palate.  Spain has a white Rioja and Gavi from Italy are both very good.

I could go on, but I'll stop....for now.  For some reason I'm thirsty.

[Ernest Jones]

9 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

Where to start...I'm definitely a red fan.  I gravitate towards Pinots and am amazed at the difference between Oregon/Willamette, Sonoma and European varietals.  Someone mentioned (spot on) that European/French tend to be more earthy.  Oregon Pinots also have those traits and are very good value.  Probably my favorites would be:

• Kings Estate (Oregon, mid-priced)
• Beaux Freres (Oregon, pricey but awesome)
• Flowers (Sonoma, slightly pricey but very good)
• La Crema (Have both Sonoma and Oregon varieties, lower-priced...a good go-to Pinot)

I just visited the Piemonte area of Italy and did a day-long tour of Barolo, Barbaresco and Roero.  My goodness was it amazing...both food (truffles!) and the wine.  Barolos are excellent if aged properly (heavy tannins) but there is no shortage of great wine from that region...Docettos, Barberas.  Some very good whites as well. 

I have a few wines in my wine fridge waiting for consumption that I can't wait to evaluate.  A nice Margaux, Stag's Leap Cab, Brunello, more Pinots, Barolo's from my trip...can't wait.

One plug for Spanish wine too.  I go to Spain often for work and, honestly, am never disappointed with any red wine I have while i'm there.  Rioja and Ribero del Duero are excellent, drinkable reds that everyone should try.

Whites? Its not that I don't like them, I just prefer red.  My wife and I do have them often.  She's a Sauvignon Blanc fan.  I'm not a fan of the ones from Marlborough (New Zealand)...heavy on the grapefruit/peach flavors.  Sancerre from the Loire Valley in France is really, really good.  A bit smoother and richer on the palate.  Spain has a white Rioja and Gavi from Italy are both very good.

I could go on, but I'll stop....for now.  For some reason I'm thirsty.

Am I correct in my understanding that a Docetto is very comparable to a Morgon or Brouilly from the Beaujolais region?

[NCGolfer]

1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

Am I correct in my understanding that a Docetto is very comparable to a Morgon or Brouilly from the Beaujolais region?

Mmmm...Beaujolais.  I almost forgot.  I had some of the Nouveau this year.

To answer your question I think that the Dolcetto is more tannic and a bit drier.  They are both easy to drink (medium/light body).  Dolcetto looks like a heavy wine but don't be fooled.  Beaujolais has a bit more earth to the flavor but not quite what you'd taste in a Burgundy.  The Dolcettos I've had are a bit more fruit forward but, like I said, a bit dry.  Both are in the same price range as well.

Just my opinion.  Someone with a more discerning palate may be able to help differentiate better.

Barberas (from the same region in Italy) are even easier to drink...fruit forward, high acid, low tannin.  It's what most people from the Piemonte drink on a daily basis.  If you like a dry wine, try the Dolcetto.  If you prefer something a little more fruit-forward and less harsh on your tongue, try the Barbera.

Cheers!

[Marigold_Sparkle]

A friend once told me, you have to spend at least $10 on a bottle of wine in order to avoid a headache. In addition to skipping the headache, 99% of the time, you'll get a tasty wine too (especially if you're not all that picky).

Any other pinotage fans here?

[Gator Hazard]

On 11/17/2016 at 5:39 PM, Golfingdad said:

Not a connoisseur here either, but we like to go wine tasting, and now that we're in a Temecula wine club, we pretty much force ourselves to go 3 times a year when we go to pick up our shipments.  I like reds mostly, but nothing that is too dry.  Favorites tend to be pinot noirs although those not grown in Temecula, unfortunately.  Our current favorite is Meomi (I wanna say 2014) and we've been buying in bulk (you get 6 and it's usually 40% off at Stater Bros or Ralphs).

My all time fave in Temecula was a Mouvedre (not sure of the spelling) from a few years back that I've never been able to find again. :(

Wife and I never liked wine at all before our honeymoon (2007 in Italy) where sodas were 4 or 5 Euros with dinner and wine was 2 or 3 oftentimes.  We learned to like wine on that trip.  The trip ended in Tuscany and we brought (smuggled?) home a few bottles of Brunello and Rosso Di Montalcino, both of which are sangiovese based wines.

A couple of others I like are malbec, zinfandel (red, not white), and port. :)

Cheers on the port. It's a nice way to finish a good steak dinner or Italian meal. 

I like red wines in general that are dark and fruity but I got to thinking and the wine I like most is probably a good bottle of champagne. 

[Gator Hazard]

On 11/18/2016 at 0:18 PM, Ernest Jones said:

Can't go wrong with Argentinian Malbecs. Cheap and plentiful.

Agreed. Lots of great wine coming out of South America for some time now. About five years ago my wife and I stayed at Portifino Universal and had dinner at Brio. Most of the wines were overpriced crap you can buy in your grocery store aisle but I was willing to try the second cheapest bottle on the list because it was from Argentina. It was a bottle of Kaiken Malbec and it was phenomenal (I am far from a conossieur-hell can't even spell it right). After a glass I started talking with the waiter about it and how it tasted good, that I had heard South American wines were on the rise and all of a sudden the guy brightened up and started telling me all about it and the region. How he thought it was one of the best wines on the list regardless of price. It was funny, like we knew a secret other diners did not or something. 

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, NCGolfer said:

Where to start...I'm definitely a red fan.  I gravitate towards Pinots and am amazed at the difference between Oregon/Willamette, Sonoma and European varietals.  Someone mentioned (spot on) that European/French tend to be more earthy.  Oregon Pinots also have those traits and are very good value.  Probably my favorites would be:

• Kings Estate (Oregon, mid-priced)
• Beaux Freres (Oregon, pricey but awesome)
• Flowers (Sonoma, slightly pricey but very good)
• La Crema (Have both Sonoma and Oregon varieties, lower-priced...a good go-to Pinot)

I just visited the Piemonte area of Italy and did a day-long tour of Barolo, Barbaresco and Roero.  My goodness was it amazing...both food (truffles!) and the wine.  Barolos are excellent if aged properly (heavy tannins) but there is no shortage of great wine from that region...Docettos, Barberas.  Some very good whites as well. 

I have a few wines in my wine fridge waiting for consumption that I can't wait to evaluate.  A nice Margaux, Stag's Leap Cab, Brunello, more Pinots, Barolo's from my trip...can't wait.

One plug for Spanish wine too.  I go to Spain often for work and, honestly, am never disappointed with any red wine I have while i'm there.  Rioja and Ribero del Duero are excellent, drinkable reds that everyone should try.

Whites? Its not that I don't like them, I just prefer red.  My wife and I do have them often.  She's a Sauvignon Blanc fan.  I'm not a fan of the ones from Marlborough (New Zealand)...heavy on the grapefruit/peach flavors.  Sancerre from the Loire Valley in France is really, really good.  A bit smoother and richer on the palate.  Spain has a white Rioja and Gavi from Italy are both very good.

I could go on, but I'll stop....for now.  For some reason I'm thirsty.

 

13 hours ago, NCGolfer said:

Mmmm...Beaujolais.  I almost forgot.  I had some of the Nouveau this year.

To answer your question I think that the Dolcetto is more tannic and a bit drier.  They are both easy to drink (medium/light body).  Dolcetto looks like a heavy wine but don't be fooled.  Beaujolais has a bit more earth to the flavor but not quite what you'd taste in a Burgundy.  The Dolcettos I've had are a bit more fruit forward but, like I said, a bit dry.  Both are in the same price range as well.

Just my opinion.  Someone with a more discerning palate may be able to help differentiate better.

Barberas (from the same region in Italy) are even easier to drink...fruit forward, high acid, low tannin.  It's what most people from the Piemonte drink on a daily basis.  If you like a dry wine, try the Dolcetto.  If you prefer something a little more fruit-forward and less harsh on your tongue, try the Barbera.

Cheers!

We have very similar tastes and desire to explore different varietals. Thanks for posting.