Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA

[JetFan1983]

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Great post.

You're just saying that because I said you're a great guy. I see through this "compliment!" 

 

13 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

(Don't agree with all of it by any means, , but great nonetheless)

Haha and I respect that. 

[RH31]

36 minutes ago, iacas said:

Simple solution: don't breach any rules.

"Call-in viewers" only punish those who:

• Breach the rules.
• Don't include the penalty on their scorecards.

So who cares when they call in? Is it better for the player if they call in before they sign their scorecard? Obviously. But the player is not the victim here. The player is the perpetrator. The player is the one who failed to do what they're required to do.

Uhhh… perhaps because they think she cheated. And if she did, she should have been DQed.

It can be. But what if they're right? Then the negative karma owed is looking for Lexi…

Right. Don't make mistakes, we're human so you can nix that solution.

Maybe only the wrong doer is "punished" as you say, but it can adversely affect the other players, spectators, officials and viewing audience when it plays out like it did.

I'm not the kind of guy that revels in all that nonsense, I can see that some do.

[DrvFrShow]

Okay, so "new evidence" came to light after the round was over. So she should have been assessed a 2 stroke penalty for playing from the wrong place and signed an amended scorecard. I still think the 4 stroke penalty assessed in the middle of the next round was crap given that at the time of signing the scorecard was assumed by the player, her playing partners, and the event to be correct. Even the IRS allows you to file an amended return if new evidence comes to light. I've been audited 3 times. Once I filed an amended return for a prior year. There was no penalty assessed, just a disallowed deduction because I put it on the wrong form.

[GolfLug]

2 hours ago, Braivo said:

After sleeping on this issue, and subsequently removing some emotion from the analysis, I now think it was handled fairly and nothing should change. In fact, I find myself doubting a bit whether or not it was intentional or Lexi actually knew she did it. She's quite young and I know at that age I would have been tempted to subscribe to the "no harm, no foul" faux virtue. 

In fact, I think reinstating the DQ for an incorrect scorecard may be prudent as such things should have consequences, irregardless of intent. 

Thank you so much. I really felt like a dick yesterday for even suggesting that it was intentional, and while I am not nice a person as @Golfingdad (I say that with utmost sincerity - you should meet him in person) I can honestly say it really bothered me as no one can truly say what she was thinking.

The idea of fixing rounding errors with the thought of no harm-no foul is not new obviously. Or may be the thought process is - who the hell thinks driving 2 mph over the speed limit is actually speeding or even worth pulling somebody over (like Phil seemed to suggest).

The gravity of this breach is much greater than emotions would let us feel. Golf is truly a game of inches or an inch in this sad case.     

[nevets88]

Impractical tech solution - just saying this out loud - laser  equipped ball marker that beeps when properly aligned. I know it makes no sense. Just throwing it out there. Like the line callers in tennis. 

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Right. Don't make mistakes, we're human so you can nix that solution.

I didn't say that. You can make a mistake… you just have to know the rules well enough to adjust your score accordingly.

7 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Maybe only the wrong doer is "punished" as you say, but it can adversely affect the other players, spectators, officials and viewing audience when it plays out like it did.

So you'd rather a player who knowingly violated a rule win or finish higher than they should simply because their infraction was spotted the next day? Or by a "viewer"? I highly doubt that.

The committee gave her the penalty because they determined it to be a matter of fact that she violated the Rules of Golf. The viewer simply alerted them to it.

7 minutes ago, RH31 said:

I'm not the kind of guy that revels in all that nonsense, I can see that some do.

You can comment here without making disparaging remarks about others. You're active in this discussion, too.

6 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

So she should have been assessed a 2 stroke penalty for playing from the wrong place and signed an amended scorecard.

No. She signed an incorrect scorecard. It's her responsibility - her obligation - to know and follow the rules. She failed. So ultimately she broke two rules. Once when she played from a wrong place, and a second time when she submitted an incorrect scorecard.

There's no provision for a player to "amend" or "alter" a scorecard after he/she has submitted it. Only the committee can amend a score after it's been submitted.

4 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Impractical tech solution - just saying this out loud - laser  equipped ball marker that beeps when properly aligned. I know it makes no sense. Just throwing it out there. Like the line callers in tennis. 

Not necessary. Just put it back in the right spot. Sheesh. Impractical is right.

[DrvFrShow]

So in golf you're supposed to know even if you don't know. .... gotta love it. Like I've said, you gotta be a lawyer to understand this stuff. It pays to be one to play.

Edited April 5, 2017 by DrvFrShow

[HitAndGiggle]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

Ummm...because people just found out that you can wait a day or two, call in an infraction at the start of a final round or later and create havoc. Some quackos get a kick out of stuff like that. 

Yeah, that was my point. Some people get off by having their skivvies in a bind and feel a need to have an impact like this.

I heard the announcers make some interesting points. One being mine that it's possible for people to wait too long to report stuff (like when somebody is about to close the deal). Another point was that if you're a couple slots down the leader board you could probably place your ball like that for 18 holes and there'll be no camera coverage of it. The point there is that they are enlisting the general public to be refs. We don't get to do that on NFL games...for good reason. Heck...why not see something like this on day 2 of a tourney, place a bet, then phone it in on the close of day 4?

[Yukari]

1 minute ago, DrvFrShow said:

So in golf you're supposed to know even if you don't know. .... gotta love it.

Well, it is the same in life too.  Ignorance of the law is no defense when you are caught.

[Braivo]

1 minute ago, DrvFrShow said:

So in golf you're supposed to know even if you don't know. .... gotta love it.

This is true of life as well, intent doesn't change the outcome. This is why so many of us are drawn to golf because it so perfectly mimics life. 

Rules and structure take the emotional element out of it and leave us with just the results. 

[DrvFrShow]

1 minute ago, Braivo said:

This is true of life as well, intent doesn't change the outcome. This is why so many of us are drawn to golf because it so perfectly mimics life. 

Rules and structure take the emotional element out of it and leave us with just the results. 

That's not why I'm drawn to the game. It's the sunshine and quiet.

[GolfLug]

Didn't know had to be a lawyer to know the first and the most basic rule in golf - 'Play it as it lies'.

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

So in golf you're supposed to know even if you don't know. .... gotta love it.

Others answered, but… yeah, just like in life. For a game that pays you millions, you'd think pros would know the rules better.

8 minutes ago, Yukari said:

Well, it is the same in life too.  Ignorance of the law is no defense when you are caught.

Yep.

9 minutes ago, HitAndGiggle said:

Yeah, that was my point. Some people get off by having their skivvies in a bind and feel a need to have an impact like this.

You're making an assessment of a person you don't even know. For all you know, the person who emailed was Lexi's mom, or Lexi's biggest fan, or an off-duty rules official, or… whatever. I certainly wasn't "having my skivvies in a bind" (whatever that means) in 2013. I was protecting the integrity of the game.

9 minutes ago, HitAndGiggle said:

One being mine that it's possible for people to wait too long to report stuff (like when somebody is about to close the deal).

So? It's closer to the truth when it's reported. And again, only the guilty are punished. Nobody can be dealt a penalty they didn't deserve.

9 minutes ago, HitAndGiggle said:

Another point was that if you're a couple slots down the leader board you could probably place your ball like that for 18 holes and there'll be no camera coverage of it.

Many responses to this have already been posted.

9 minutes ago, HitAndGiggle said:

The point there is that they are enlisting the general public to be refs. We don't get to do that on NFL games...for good reason.

Once again, comparing golf to other sports is a complete non-starter. The ultimate "referee" in golf is supposed to be the player herself. Lexi failed in her obligation.

C'mon, people… if you're going to post something that's already been responded to many times over, at least quote one of those responses and tell us why you disagree with it. Add something new.

[DrvFrShow]

11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Didn't know had to be a lawyer to know the first and the most basic rule in golf - 'Play it as it lies'.

But if you read the rule book... except when you don't. See all those decisions....

Edited April 5, 2017 by DrvFrShow

[JonMA1]

A few more thoughts on this...

1. You know the officials saw this #!^@ storm coming. Why on Earth would they rule as they did if not because they thought it the right thing to do?

2. The matter of intent is of no importance when it comes to rules. It only complicates what is to me a very simple idea.

3. If precision is required to avoid extra strokes, perhaps those playing for millions of dollars will start paying as close attention towards properly replacing the ball as they do reading the green.

[GolfLug]

Just now, DrvFrShow said:

But if you read the rule book... except when you don't. 

So read the book then?

BTW, there is an accompanying rules official who is there to be the book carrying lawyer, when in doubt.

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

A few more thoughts on this...

1. You know the officials saw this #!^@ storm coming. Why on Earth would they rule as they did if not because they thought it the right thing to do?

2. The matter of intent is of no importance when it comes to rules. It only complicates what is to me a very simple idea.

3. If precision is required to avoid extra strokes, perhaps those playing for millions of dollars will start paying as close attention towards properly replacing the ball as they do reading the green.

All true points.

[RH31]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

I didn't say that. You can make a mistake… you just have to know the rules well enough to adjust your score accordingly.

 

So you'd rather a player who knowingly violated a rule win or finish higher than they should simply because their infraction was spotted the next day? Or by a "viewer"? I highly doubt that.

 

You also have to be aware the infraction occurred. Example...players club brushes a spec of sand and player didn't know it. Magnified replay may prove otherwise.

Yes. I think action should be taken before the start of the next round or playoff or it's moot. Hey if the perpetrator wants to w/d, that's fine. To me, it's not any worse than a foul committed in the final round being spotted the next day.

 

[DrvFrShow]

2 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

A few more thoughts on this...

1. You know the officials saw this #!^@ storm coming. Why on Earth would they rule as they did if not because they thought it the right thing to do?

2. The matter of intent is of no importance when it comes to rules. It only complicates what is to me a very simple idea.

3. If precision is required to avoid extra strokes, perhaps those playing for millions of dollars will start paying as close attention towards properly replacing the ball as they do reading the green.

All in all this isn't a big deal to me. I don't sit around watching a bunch of millionaires hit a white ball around on a golf course over the weekend. So it's not like this impacts my life other than the fact that it's finally getting warmer out and we've finally had three days in a row where it hasn't rained. If it's nice out, I'd rather be outside doing something myself. It's also been about 12 years since I watched an NFL game.