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8 hours ago, Nutsmacker said:

 Why would the previous owner rid themselves of it if it was a good vehicle(club)?

We have a good player at my home club who goes through golf clubs like I go through golf balls.  He'll buy something, play it for two weeks, and sell it when something else bright and shiny catches his eye.  He's playing off scratch, so its not like he's looking to buy a game, he just loves the next new thing more than the new thing he has now.

As for what driver to try, you've had lots of advice so far.  I'd suggest, however, that if you're hitting your driver consistently 270 yards, and mostly in play, that the best way for you to score better is to improve your iron play, hit more greens, hit it closer to the pin.  That doesn't translate into new equipment, but rather into instruction and practice.  I know that's not as much fun as a new shiny driver, but it might be more effective.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

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On 5/3/2017 at 8:14 AM, Nutsmacker said:

Yea, I read your review.  It is so tempting to get that club but the price tag is really high.  I am a little shocked at the price to be honest.  Golf is struggling at the moment and they are putting out 5 hundred dollar clubs?  That thing doesn't cost 3 or 4 hundred to actually manufacture.  They are gouging a bit on that Epic.  I was collecting data on my current driver yesterday and it was really odd the changes in distance on off center strikes vs. the sweet spot.  I had two drives that went over 305 when struck perfectly and on slight off hits that still went straight I had a couple that were 260 yard range.  That seems to be such a huge drop off when not hitting it directly in the sweet spot.  I assume that this is where I will see the biggest advantage with a newer club in that the sweet spot will be larger and I won't need to make such a perfect strike to maximize the distance.  The club I use has a very small head for a driver.  

The Epic Sub Zero has not left my bag at all this year. Tremendous club. And I don't doubt that it's a bit more expensive to manufacture with those bars in there and all that - that's some engineering.

They charge what the market will bear. Golf isn't really "struggling" anymore - it's rebounding.

That said, if it's out of your price range, it's out of your price range.

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On 5/3/2017 at 8:14 AM, Nutsmacker said:

That thing doesn't cost 3 or 4 hundred to actually manufacture.

True. But you have to remember you're not paying just for what it cost to make. There are many people eating off this one meal. Endorsements, OEM profit margins, advertising, with each one needing a percentage to make it work. It may cost $100 in materials...now you've got all these hungry entities lined up for a profit who all contributed to its hopeful success. So $500 in today's economy is simply on target for each entity to profit.

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go look and demo the new epic and subzero and m1or m2 drivers. those two are the ones i'd suggest looking at. get fitted and find the right shaft for it and ur golden. but honestly i picked up last year's 16 M2 for 80bucks and love it. after liking my m2 so much i'm good on the new 2017 drivers. i can wait till 2018 drivers. and it'll be the 2nd epic model and at the moment the epic drivers are badass so 18 epic and subzero will be even better. plus u can get em without that green color. 

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12 hours ago, iacas said:

The Epic Sub Zero has not left my bag at all this year. Tremendous club. And I don't doubt that it's a bit more expensive to manufacture with those bars in there and all that - that's some engineering.

I've heard fantastic things about that club, and it really makes me want to give it a swing to see what all the hype is about. If you go to golfwrx, you can sometimes find the "club owners of loose morals" (club h...) selling their near-new gear (like the Callaway Epic drivers) for a decent discount, if price is a concern @Nutsmacker

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Like I said before, you don't need a 2017 Driver to improve on a 2002 Driver, something within the last three or four years is fine, yes driver tech is slightly better than the previous model. 

@Nutsmacker I believe you can scour eBay and find a great deal on something more recent, perhaps a Taylormade SLDR or something in that range of release. The EPIC is worth the money, I demoed it recently, I was astonished of the consistency I had with it. But still I stuck to my Tour Edge Exotics EX9 driver. 

What's in Shane's Bag?     

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On 5/4/2017 at 10:04 AM, iacas said:

The Epic Sub Zero has not left my bag at all this year. Tremendous club. And I don't doubt that it's a bit more expensive to manufacture with those bars in there and all that - that's some engineering.

They charge what the market will bear. Golf isn't really "struggling" anymore - it's rebounding.

That said, if it's out of your price range, it's out of your price range.

I just find it hard to justify spending 500 bucks on a club.  I might consider it if it really does perform to its dollar amount.  I mean, I hit a club that costs about 20 dollars on ebay pretty well...would a 500 dollar club provide me with the equivalent $ improvement in my driving?  I doubt it...but if it does, than I would consider springing for it.  I am going to try the M2 as that seems to be a good compromise and for less dough.  

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Pick up last year's M2 driver...at least half the price of Callaway's $499 line up.  When I was fitted, last year's M2 was a better fit than the Epic was.

Give it a look.

 

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I hit the 2016 M2 and the new epic sub zero and didn't see any substantial difference in performance personally, definitely not an extra $200 worth for me. 

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On 4/28/2017 at 1:48 PM, mdl said:

If you read LSW, or look at pro stats, you'll see that your expected shots to hole out from 60 yards are, unless you've got major short game issues like you say you do, significantly lower than from 150.  Even with your discomfort, I wouldn't be surprised if you also actually take fewer shots on average from 60 vs 150 yards.  Regardless, with your length you should be hitting lots of 60-80 yard approaches to par 4s and be getting a huge advantage.

I thought about this quote my last few times out.  I think its pretty much a toss up with the scoring from the distances vs 150.  I don't really play to 150 unless the hole dictates it in reality.  I am usually playing to 125-145.  At that range I have a wedge in hand that I can take a full swing at.  When I am doing that I am in much more control of the distance...so even if I miss the green, I only have a short chip on.  

From say 80 yards...I try to dial back my sand wedge and almost inevitably go long every time.  I get locked in my head to only go about 3/4 swing...which then in turn ends up having me hit the ball pure and it ends up going more like 90-95.  When I do this, I find myself either being at the wrong side of a green or even airmailing the green with a much more difficult chip/lob back on to the green.  So, when I am a 9 iron, PW, UW, or full SW to the green, I am very much control of the distance so even shots that are off line are still a tiny chip and putt.  Not always the case when I try to hit a 3/4 or 1/2 SW.  That is why I have tried to hit to that range as I feel more in control of the situation.  However, you are correct in the fact that my scoring is about the same from those distances with more closer birdie opps from 50-80 and more hole outs but also more variability in the length dispersion of the shot.  In my mind that is more frustrating than just being off the green pin high from 150.  

I have to get better at that shorter shot!  haha

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5 hours ago, Nutsmacker said:

I thought about this quote my last few times out.  I think its pretty much a toss up with the scoring from the distances vs 150.  I don't really play to 150 unless the hole dictates it in reality.  I am usually playing to 125-145.  At that range I have a wedge in hand that I can take a full swing at.  When I am doing that I am in much more control of the distance...so even if I miss the green, I only have a short chip on.  

From say 80 yards...I try to dial back my sand wedge and almost inevitably go long every time.  I get locked in my head to only go about 3/4 swing...which then in turn ends up having me hit the ball pure and it ends up going more like 90-95.  When I do this, I find myself either being at the wrong side of a green or even airmailing the green with a much more difficult chip/lob back on to the green.  So, when I am a 9 iron, PW, UW, or full SW to the green, I am very much control of the distance so even shots that are off line are still a tiny chip and putt.  Not always the case when I try to hit a 3/4 or 1/2 SW.  That is why I have tried to hit to that range as I feel more in control of the situation.  However, you are correct in the fact that my scoring is about the same from those distances with more closer birdie opps from 50-80 and more hole outs but also more variability in the length dispersion of the shot.  In my mind that is more frustrating than just being off the green pin high from 150.  

I have to get better at that shorter shot!  haha

 

Glad you paid some attention and reported back!  Better than I usually do!

It's great to notice that your struggle with distance control on partial wedges is already offset by your increased accuracy, leading to easier first putts on average when the distance is right.  Just shows you how much of a break through it'll be when you get as or more confident in distance control as you do with a full wedge swing.

I'm just getting back on the course after a tough winter, but when I'm dialed in, I'm praying for chances at partial 60˚ approaches instead of full wedge ones!  Of course, it's still better, they're just both worse than I'd like...

 

Matt

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On 5/5/2017 at 8:19 PM, Nutsmacker said:

I just find it hard to justify spending 500 bucks on a club.  I might consider it if it really does perform to its dollar amount.  I mean, I hit a club that costs about 20 dollars on ebay pretty well...would a 500 dollar club provide me with the equivalent $ improvement in my driving?  I doubt it...but if it does, than I would consider springing for it.  I am going to try the M2 as that seems to be a good compromise and for less dough.  

I feel the same way. I got to hit the Sub Zero at a local golf shop and, God almighty, it was so nice! Incredibly solid feeling, responsive, and the ball just rocketed off the clubface! The TM M1's give me a similar feel, but not quite as nice.

But, I look at it this way. I don't make my living playing golf, and 5 Hundy is a big load! And the guys who do make their living playing golf get them for free! Not only that, they get PAID for playing them! I guess that's why I've never bought a pair of Air Jordan's. I figure MJ has enough money, and doesn't need any of mine!

I'll just be patient, and monitor the used club market in the future.

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8 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I feel the same way. I got to hit the Sub Zero at a local golf shop and, God almighty, it was so nice! Incredibly solid feeling, responsive, and the ball just rocketed off the clubface! The TM M1's give me a similar feel, but not quite as nice.

But, I look at it this way. I don't make my living playing golf, and 5 Hundy is a big load! And the guys who do make their living playing golf get them for free! Not only that, they get PAID for playing them! I guess that's why I've never bought a pair of Air Jordan's. I figure MJ has enough money, and doesn't need any of mine!

I'll just be patient, and monitor the used club market in the future.

I was looking at the M2 driver on ebay and saw it could be purchased used for about 300 (2017) model and about 250 for the 2016 model.  I am terribly close to buying it sight unseen without even trying them.  

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I just bought the Callaway Epic Sub Zero, I didn't think I would pay that much ever for a Driver, but love it so far.  

51 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

I was looking at the M2 driver on ebay and saw it could be purchased used for about 300 (2017) model and about 250 for the 2016 model.  I am terribly close to buying it sight unseen without even trying them.  

Rockbottomgolf.com was selling the 2016 M2 driver for $299, brand new.  I bought one for a raffle prize at the golf tournament I'm running next Monday

Edited by jsgolfer

-Jerry

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 (9.5 degree) – Aldila RIP 60-2.9-Stiff; Callaway Mini-Driver Kura Kage 60g shaft - 12 degree Hybrids: Callway X2 Hot Pro - 16 degree & 23 degree – Pro-Shaft; Callway X2 Hot – 5H & 6H Irons: Titleist 714 AP2 7 thru AW with S300 Dynamic Gold Wedges: Titleist Vokey GW (54 degree), Callaway MackDaddy PM Grind SW (58 degree) Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Heavy Balls: Titleist Pro V1x & Snell MyTourBall

"Golf is the closest game to the game we call life. You get bad breaks from good shots; you get good breaks from bad shots but you have to play the ball where it lies."- Bobby Jones

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The Sub Zero is a heck of a driver. It just feels stable and solid. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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On 2017-5-4 at 2:04 PM, DaveP043 said:

As for what driver to try, you've had lots of advice so far.  I'd suggest, however, that if you're hitting your driver consistently 270 yards, and mostly in play, that the best way for you to score better is to improve your iron play, hit more greens, hit it closer to the pin.  That doesn't translate into new equipment, but rather into instruction and practice.  I know that's not as much fun as a new shiny driver, but it might be more effective.

 
 

I would agree with this.  If you aren't using something like Game Golf already to analyze your game then it might be worth giving it a spin to see if it can give you some insight.  I'm in a similar position to you in terms of handicap but I hit it a bit shorter. As much as I want to buy the Epic SZ the GG numbers are telling me that I have much bigger problems elsewhere.  

Averaging 270+ mostly on the fairway must be pretty close to scratch territory so you must be losing strokes relatively heavily elsewhere.  I would speculate that picking up another 10 yards on your driver might not gain you as many strokes as fixing your biggest problem in approach/short game/putting.

Edited by ZappyAd
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Adam

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2 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

I would agree with this.  If you aren't using something like Game Golf already to analyze your game then it might be worth giving it a spin to see if it can give you some insight.  I'm in a similar position to you in terms of handicap but I hit it a bit shorter. As much as I want to buy the Epic SZ the GG numbers are telling me that I have much bigger problems elsewhere.  

Well, yea, this is always the response to anyone that is not a scratch golfer in that you can improve your score quicker by getting better at.....

Sure, I can always improve my putting, iron play, etc.  However, I know this already and do work on it.  I have gotten to the point where I am very consistent with my irons and my chipping.  My putting needs improvement significantly...but what player can't say that?  I think anyone that shoots under a 10 handicap will tell you that they need to work on putting.  Why?  Well, you are obviously going to have a lot more looks at birdie than your average 15-20 Handicapper but still not breaking into low to mid 70's.  If you were, you would be closer to scratch.  I think its very hard for someone to have a handicap less than 10 whom isn't a good iron player or driver of the golf ball.  I rarely see someone who hits like crap but is so good with their short game that they play a 7 or 8 handicap.  

I invested in new irons for the first time this year and now want to do the same with my driver.  I played with the same clubs my entire golfing career and I want an upgrade because the new shiny driver will almost certainly shorten the course for me and keep me in play more often...which will take a stroke or two off my score.  However, knowing my game, putting lessons will probably take me down 3 or 4 more strokes if I got good at that.  However, I am not going to just give up the one or two strokes I could save with a new driver...and would have instant gratification ...while becoming an excellent putter is not going to happen with an equipment change and will be a progression of an improvement.  If I swap out my 2002 510 with a 2017 M2, within a day or so I am going to be driving the ball better.  

I get really tired of that advice in all honesty.  I am not picking on you or the poster, but when you go to an equipment shop and talk to the old guy selling the clubs at a Golf Galaxy or whatever...they always say the same thing "If you want to lower your handicap you should work on your short game.  A new driver isn't going to make as much of a difference."  Gee, thanks.  Like I didn't know that already..I have been playing golf for 15 years...short game actually matters?  

The advice has been good and I am going to get one this week.  I will report back on results after I purchase.  

 

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