Jim "Bones" Mackay's 10 Tips for Reading Greens

[nevets88]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Sarcasm… my man. Though I still would bet Phil hasn't backed the KS campaign.

Now I'm trying to figure out is Bill is being sarcastic. Go ahead, have fun at my expense. 

[Missouri Swede]

6 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I really want to know the logic for this one.

Dark matter

[Pepsivanilla93]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

For those of you who haven't taken an AimPoint class, too, I'm curious: why not?

Money, historically no nearby clinics or instructors, and have always been self-taught. Turns out there's 2 instructors about an hour away from me now which is new since the last time I checked some years ago. About 15 min of google-fu and I think I've found the essence of what Aimpoint Express entails. I might show up a bit earlier to my tee-time on Saturday and tinker with what I've found so far but I was wondering if the Aimpoint Express DVD would be worth it in your opinion? Like I said I'm more of a tinkerer and self-taught so spending a small amount on the fundamentals DVD and being told "now have at it" appeals to me.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Pepsivanilla93 said:

Money, historically no nearby clinics or instructors, and have always been self-taught. Turns out there's 2 instructors about an hour away from me now which is new since the last time I checked some years ago. About 15 min of google-fu and I think I've found the essence of what Aimpoint Express entails. I might show up a bit earlier to my tee-time on Saturday and tinker with what I've found so far but I was wondering if the Aimpoint Express DVD would be worth it in your opinion? Like I said I'm more of a tinkerer and self-taught so spending a small amount on the fundamentals DVD and being told "now have at it" appeals to me.

Other people can answer that more accurately than I can, but I think most people who have done the DVDs and the classes would tell you that you get more per dollar out of the course than the DVDs. The DVDs were intended to help drive business to instructors, too.

And I'm not likely to be your instructor at all so it's not at all about that for me. I get the "self tinkering" thing, but if you don't know what you're doing, you can go off on a tangent or something pretty quickly.

[Pepsivanilla93]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Other people can answer that more accurately than I can, but I think most people who have done the DVDs and the classes would tell you that you get more per dollar out of the course than the DVDs. The DVDs were intended to help drive business to instructors, too.

And I'm not likely to be your instructor at all so it's not at all about that for me. I get the "self tinkering" thing, but if you don't know what you're doing, you can go off on a tangent or something pretty quickly.

Thanks for chiming in, I'll consider that as I do my research. Since it's a break reading system it sounds like it would be useful for short game running shots as well.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Pepsivanilla93 said:

Thanks for chiming in, I'll consider that as I do my research. Since it's a break reading system it sounds like it would be useful for short game running shots as well.

Yeah.

At the core, it's a pretty simple concept, but there are a number of points where you can get yourself off-track if you try to teach it to yourself based on what you can find online.

[Pepsivanilla93]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah.

At the core, it's a pretty simple concept, but there are a number of points where you can get yourself off-track if you try to teach it to yourself based on what you can find online.

I just emailed the instructors near me for information and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing for now. It sounds very interesting though. Thanks for the info.

[Buckeyebowman]

I found it interesting that during the US Open TV broadcast today, one of the commentators took note of Justin Rose holding up his index finger to the the line of his putt. Another commented that Rose had taken Aimpoint instruction, and that it was the modern version of plumb bobbing!

I have not taken Aimpoint instruction and probably never will. I'm near 65, living on a fixed income, and am putting fairly well. Perhaps more important, I do not make a living playing golf.

I will say this. We play a local course that has several holes set into the side of a fairly steep hill. When you set a green into a hillside it can appear visually that it breaks the opposite way of the general lay of the land, when in fact it may not. The first few times I played this place, I had one hell of a time reading greens. Then I learned to feel the slope with my feet.

If my eyes couldn't tell me what was going on, I counted on my feet.

[boogielicious]

I played in a scramble Monday. I read all the putts using AimPoint. They were "Dead-on-balls-accurate". My buddy, who is a 10 index, said to the others in our group to let me read them because I'm always correct. One guy was a skeptic, but after we went to -3, he politely agreed. No three putts and the greens were fast, 11ish.

He was complaining a bit about the possibility of stepping on others lines, but I assured him that was not the case. He wouldn't have even known I was using AimPoint if my buddy didn't tell him.

[nevets88]

You know what I'd watch? I'd watch a "reality" show where you get these Aimpoint is mumbo jumbo folks in a reading contest against a competent AE user (I'd suggest a young kid to really embarrass them). But of course if Aimpoint wins, mumbo jumbo guy will come up w/some other stupid excuse.

Actually, just have them do separate reads and use that perfect putt roller thing to take putting out of the equation. Put your money where your mouth is network broadcast announcers!

[jamo]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I found it interesting that during the US Open TV broadcast today, one of the commentators took note of Justin Rose holding up his index finger to the the line of his putt. Another commented that Rose had taken Aimpoint instruction, and that it was the modern version of plumb bobbing!

I have not taken Aimpoint instruction and probably never will. I'm near 65, living on a fixed income, and am putting fairly well. Perhaps more important, I do not make a living playing golf.

I will say this. We play a local course that has several holes set into the side of a fairly steep hill. When you set a green into a hillside it can appear visually that it breaks the opposite way of the general lay of the land, when in fact it may not. The first few times I played this place, I had one hell of a time reading greens. Then I learned to feel the slope with my feet.

If my eyes couldn't tell me what was going on, I counted on my feet.

I find that it's particularly helpful on putts that don't break much. Even if I don't take the time to do the full AimPoint read, just knowing enough to detect with my feet where uphill is can tell me if I'm left edge or right edge.

[billchao]

14 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Now I'm trying to figure out is Bill is being sarcastic. Go ahead, have fun at my expense. 

You can count on me to be sarcastic or snide or joking in some manner at least 90% of the time. But you weren't talking about me, were you? 

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I found it interesting that during the US Open TV broadcast today, one of the commentators took note of Justin Rose holding up his index finger to the the line of his putt. Another commented that Rose had taken Aimpoint instruction, and that it was the modern version of plumb bobbing!

It irks me to think of how lazy these guys are at their jobs that they won't even take an AimPoint class just so they know how to talk about it. At least do some research.

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

Actually, just have them do separate reads and use that perfect putt roller thing to take putting out of the equation. Put your money where your mouth is network broadcast announcers!

I've taken the Express class a lot, enough times that I joke that I can probably teach it at this point. My favorite part of the class is this part. You can see that light bulb moment on people's faces and it's great.

[boogielicious]

19 hours ago, billchao said:

You can count on me to be sarcastic or snide or joking in some manner at least 90% of the time. But you weren't talking about me, were you? 

It irks me to think of how lazy these guys are at their jobs that they won't even take an AimPoint class just so they know how to talk about it. At least do some research.

I've taken the Express class a lot, enough times that I joke that I can probably teach it at this point. My favorite part of the class is this part. You can see that light bulb moment on people's faces and it's great.

When they have stopped wanting to learn, they should give up their 'expert' title.

[Pepsivanilla93]

On 6/15/2017 at 11:39 PM, Pepsivanilla93 said:

I just emailed the instructors near me for information and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing for now. It sounds very interesting though. Thanks for the info.

I ended up taking an aimpoint express class today. After emailing one of the instructors he let me know there was a spot available today and I went ahead and reserved it. I'm glad I did. Right from the start the reads were dead on. Lag putting, which is usually dreadful for me, ended up being my favorite. The instructor showed us how to read lag putts with the express method and let a student try the shot out. I volunteered for the shot and parked it about 3 inches from the hole from about 25'! I was very impressed and had a lot of fun, looking forward to getting out to some practice greens.

[Shindig]

7 minutes ago, Pepsivanilla93 said:

I ended up taking an aimpoint express class today. After emailing one of the instructors he let me know there was a spot available today and I went ahead and reserved it. I'm glad I did. Right from the start the reads were dead on. Lag putting, which is usually dreadful for me, ended up being my favorite. The instructor showed us how to read lag putts with the express method and let a student try the shot out. I volunteered for the shot and parked it about 3 inches from the hole from about 25'! I was very impressed and had a lot of fun, looking forward to getting out to some practice greens.

I'm glad you enjoyed.  This reminded me that I need a refresher course.  I took the class ... in 2011 I think.  

[Pepsivanilla93]

4 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I'm glad you enjoyed.  This reminded me that I need a refresher course.  I took the class ... in 2011 I think.  

I don't know when the express method came out, but it's very quick to use and pick up, and surprisingly accurate. I would say to check out an express class for more info if you learned the chart method, or as a refresher. The clinic today was with a level 2 aimpoint instructor so we went over every type of putt you should expect to see on a green.

[sjduffers]

On 6/15/2017 at 9:06 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

When you set a green into a hillside it can appear visually that it breaks the opposite way of the general lay of the land, when in fact it may not. The first few times I played this place, I had one hell of a time reading greens. Then I learned to feel the slope with my feet.

Absolutely. The (visual) illusion is because when we look at a slope that goes downhill less than the slope we are on, it appears to us like it is (or might be) going uphill instead.  Even if you try reading a such a green from below the hole, because you are looking at a steeper slope in the background, you can pick the slight uphill in front of you as going downhill. As Einstein told us, it's all relative!  Yes, use your feet and trust them.

[Shindig]

25 minutes ago, Pepsivanilla93 said:

I don't know when the express method came out, but it's very quick to use and pick up, and surprisingly accurate. I would say to check out an express class for more info if you learned the chart method, or as a refresher. The clinic today was with a level 2 aimpoint instructor so we went over every type of putt you should expect to see on a green.

Yeah, I learned the chart method.  I don't think the guy I took it from is teaching still.  Fortunately I'm at a better part of my life where I can afford the lesson fee instead of relying on a free re-sit or whatever the deal was.