Skins Game Question

[love the game]

I play in a 4 person game that includes skins every week.   We have a 8 handicap, 13, 16 and 19.   Should natural birdies beat a par with a stroke?   Thanks

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, love the game said:

I play in a 4 person game that includes skins every week.   We have a 8 handicap, 13, 16 and 19.   Should natural birdies beat a par with a stroke?   Thanks

Do you give strokes by exact handicap numbers or some factor?

Usually, there are 4 players so a low tie usually carries over even if there is a natural birdie. Guessing the 8 is kind of pissed?

[NJpatbee]

The way we play the natural birdie and par with a stroke push.  I know it stinks for the 8 but he probably should not be playing a type of match play against a 13, 16, and 19 giving strokes.  We always play against the best handicap so the 8 would give 5 strokes to the 13 (no too bad), 8 strokes to the 16 (too many), and 11 to the 19 (way too many).  I suggest adding a net side bet for each 9 and overall to give the better player more of a chance to win. 

[klineka]

In my opinion a natural birdie and a Par with a stroke (so net birdie) should be equal and push the skins to the next hole. Thats my understanding of how the individual hole handicap works.

Sure the guy thats a 19hcp could get a par on a hole where he gets a stroke, but he could also get a double or triple on the same hole. 

[iacas]

The 8 should play off scratch, the others should play off 5, 8, and 11, and net scores are all that count. Two tie, all tie, and the skin carries over.

[NM Golf]

The 8 handicap is going to have a difficult time winning too much, but as long as your not playing $20 a hole you should be okay. Play off the 8 handicap so he will play as a 0, the 13 will be a 5, the 16 an 8, and the 19 an 11. I occasionally play in a group like this (except I actually give more strokes) and I rarely get killed. Natural and net birdies push.

Edited November 7, 2017 by NM Golf

[love the game]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Do you give strokes by exact handicap numbers or some factor?

Usually, there are 4 players so a low tie usually carries over even if there is a natural birdie. Guessing the 8 is kind of pissed?

lol  you are a mind reader!!!  We play exact handicap but we aren't playing off the 8 handicap which might make a difference.  Thanks!

53 minutes ago, iacas said:

The 8 should play off scratch, the others should play off 5, 8, and 11, and net scores are all that count. Two tie, all tie, and the skin carries over.

We haven't been playing off the 8 handicap, everyone takes  their full handicap.   Is it harder for the 8 handicap this way?  Thanks!

[klineka]

2 hours ago, love the game said:

We haven't been playing off the 8 handicap, everyone takes  their full handicap.   Is it harder for the 8 handicap this way?  Thanks!

@iacas correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt the way you suggested  make it more fair for the 8 handicap? Since the 19 handicap would only be getting strokes on 11 holes compared to if they each used there own handicaps now the 19 hcp would get a stroke on every hole?

In just straight stroke play it wouldnt matter as much I dont think becausethe 8 hcp would still give up 11 strokes regardless, but since its skins format where each hole is separate, thats where I think its more fair to use the difference between each of your handicaps to determine when you should and shouldnt be giving shots.

[jsgolfer]

When I play net skins, I only play if we all get our strokes.  I don’t make that many birdies, so giving strokes in a skins game not my cup a tee.

[Fourputt]

Just now, jsgolfer said:

When I play net skins, I only play if we all get our strokes.  I don’t make that many birdies, so giving strokes in a skins game not my cup a tee.

So, you'll only play if the odds are stacked in your favor?  Skins is basically match play, so handicaps should be managed the same way.  Wheel off the low guy and the rest get the difference from him.  If you play against 3 others who are all getting 8 or more strokes, then you might actually be at a disadvantage, but that can be modified by taking a percentage of the difference, say 80% of full stroke allotment. 

That will pare the odds back if you are playing against bogey golfers or worse.  Their stroke allocations will be clipped by more than yours will because 80% of 12 is 9.6 while 80% of  5.2 is 4.1 - you have gained a stroke and a bit more by that adjustment.  It's the fairest way to make it work for the whole foursome.  Even then, it can only be tested by trying it and see who wins most consistently and only adjust if the numbers actually indicate that something isn't right.

[jsgolfer]

23 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

So, you'll only play if the odds are stacked in your favor?  Skins is basically match play, so handicaps should be managed the same way.  Wheel off the low guy and the rest get the difference from him.  If you play against 3 others who are all getting 8 or more strokes, then you might actually be at a disadvantage, but that can be modified by taking a percentage of the difference, say 80% of full stroke allotment. 

That will pare the odds back if you are playing against bogey golfers or worse.  Their stroke allocations will be clipped by more than yours will because 80% of 12 is 9.6 while 80% of  5.2 is 4.1 - you have gained a stroke and a bit more by that adjustment.  It's the fairest way to make it work for the whole foursome.  Even then, it can only be tested by trying it and see who wins most consistently and only adjust if the numbers actually indicate that something isn't right.

Skins is nothing like match play, IMO.  Especially where I play when thee are upwards of 16 players over 4 groups.  But why is everyone getting their handicap stacked only in my favor, handicaps are designed to make everyone close to even.  

Net skins just not my game, even at 80%.  I’d rather play a Nassau then net skins. 

[ghalfaire]

7 hours ago, love the game said:

I play in a 4 person game that includes skins every week.   We have a 8 handicap, 13, 16 and 19.   Should natural birdies beat a par with a stroke?   Thanks

No.  

Edited November 8, 2017 by ghalfaire
As stated earlier skins is usually played with the low handicap golfer playing scratch and other receive the difference between, in this case, their handicap and 8.

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Skins is nothing like match play, IMO.  Especially where I play when thee are upwards of 16 players over 4 groups.  But why is everyone getting their handicap stacked only in my favor, handicaps are designed to make everyone close to even.  

Net skins just not my game, even at 80%.  I’d rather play a Nassau then net skins. 

Agree.  Gross skins only.  If there's that dramatic a difference in handicaps, there are games that make better use of the handicap system.

[Buckeyebowman]

20 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Agree.  Gross skins only.  If there's that dramatic a difference in handicaps, there are games that make better use of the handicap system.

Agreed! That's how we play it! But, we're pretty close in HI! If I shoot 4 and your shoot 5, you lose! HI should be for stroke play!

[DaveP043]

I've believed for a long time that Skins in a group of 4 or more tends to favor the higher handicaps.  It doesn't matter much whether you're playing off the low ball or playing full handicap, the greater variability in hole scores typical of higher handicaps means that they'll have more "low" hole scores, net birdies or better.  Of course they'll have more high scores too, but those are losers no matter what.  I've read that using a percentage of handicap, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4, tends to make things more even.  

[iacas]

13 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

Skins is nothing like match play, IMO.  Especially where I play when thee are upwards of 16 players over 4 groups.  But why is everyone getting their handicap stacked only in my favor, handicaps are designed to make everyone close to even.  

Net skins just not my game, even at 80%.  I’d rather play a Nassau then net skins. 

When you're playing with 16 people across groups, yes, you all get your handicap. But even then the higher handicappers are favored, so I recommend 75% handicaps or something like that.

20 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've believed for a long time that Skins in a group of 4 or more tends to favor the higher handicaps.  It doesn't matter much whether you're playing off the low ball or playing full handicap, the greater variability in hole scores typical of higher handicaps means that they'll have more "low" hole scores, net birdies or better.  Of course they'll have more high scores too, but those are losers no matter what.  I've read that using a percentage of handicap, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4, tends to make things more even.  

Exactly.

[Groucho Valentine]

Net skins games are the worst. Do gross only. Even a 30 handicap can drop a birdie or two and win one natural. Nassau's or other match play type side games you can work the handicap in. 

[Club Rat]

@love the game there are better games for only four players than a skins game.

Skins is a good game when there are more players.
But if your group is set on only skins, there are multiple ways to play.

The most popular are Gross, Net, Half Stroke and Validation Skins.
And also, Skins can be played with Carry-Over holes.

To add a little twist to Skins, we play Qualifiers Skins.
Any birdie, gross or net would win one skin regardless if there are multiple birds on a hole.

You could also throw in "Par or Better" rule in order to win.

In general, Nassau is the choice game with foursomes.
Each player is paired for six holes in a Match Play format and then pairings change.
To keep all players in every hole, I like to count both scores or count both when the low ball is tied.

We also play Front End-Back End and Total within the six holes, a three hole mini match with allowing Presses when down.

There are many other games for foursomes if you care to play various types.