2018 Honda Classic

[DeadMan]

4 hours ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

List & Thomas off the tee at 18. Birdie wins, or 2 birdies for a playoff, or 2 pars and a 3 way playoff?

What an exciting finish this is setting up to be. Great players playing great shots on a great course. Who doesn't love this?

A great course? Were you watching a different tournament?

[MrGolfguy67]

21 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

A great course? Were you watching a different tournament?

The PGA Tour is the biggest & best golf tour in the world, they can play just about anywhere they choose. Why would they choose to play at a course that is not great?

[DeadMan]

2 minutes ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

The PGA Tour is the biggest & best golf tour in the world, they can play just about anywhere they choose. Why would they choose to play at a course that is not great?

Because they care more about making money than playing great courses.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

The PGA Tour is the biggest & best golf tour in the world, they can play just about anywhere they choose. Why would they choose to play at a course that is not great?

They play a lot of courses I'd rate as "not great."

The sponsor has a big choice in the course. The infrastructure matters a lot. Etc.

"The quality of the golf course" is well down on the list of reasons why a course gets a PGA Tour stop. As long as it's long enough, "the course" doesn't matter too much.

Just now, DeadMan said:

Because they care more about making money than playing great courses.

And that.

[MrGolfguy67]

Y'all are certainly entitled to your opinion but in my opinion it is a great course. It hosts a PGA Tour event, the best players in the world could manage no better than -8 after 72 holes of play - with most not even breaking par. Fits my definition of great, sorry that it doesn't fit yours.

[DeadMan]

19 minutes ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

Y'all are certainly entitled to your opinion but in my opinion it is a great course. It hosts a PGA Tour event, the best players in the world could manage no better than -8 after 72 holes of play - with most not even breaking par. Fits my definition of great, sorry that it doesn't fit yours.

That just means it's a difficult course. Which it is. Difficult does not equal great (and, OT, but it's a huge problem with golf that people equate difficult with great in courses).

It also plays to a par 72 for non-PGA Tour play. The winning score of 272 would be -16 if you just change par back to 72.

[GrandStranded]

3 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

That just means it's a difficult course. Which it is. Difficult does not equal great (and, OT, but it's a huge problem with golf that people equate difficult with great in courses).

It also plays to a par 72 for non-PGA Tour play. The winning score of 272 would be -16 if you just change par back to 72.

I like what you said about difficult not equating to great, but I'm not sure that applies here.I've never played there, but it doesn't seem to be tricked up at all. It might not be a classic lay out, but if I had to guess, Jack is going to pick a pretty good course for his Tournament. I will say it was in pretty poor condition this year. The greens left a lot to be desired.

[onthehunt526]

10 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

That just means it's a difficult course. Which it is. Difficult does not equal great (and, OT, but it's a huge problem with golf that people equate difficult with great in courses).

It also plays to a par 72 for non-PGA Tour play. The winning score of 272 would be -16 if you just change par back to 72.

The Champion Course could host a major tomorrow... Not an exaggeration... The reason why it doesn't... In the future, the majors other than the Masters are in May, June, and July.

In 1987, the winning score at the PGA was 287 (-1).  This course is difficult. If it wasn't for the Bear Trap, Tiger might have won this week.

[Golfingdad]

3 hours ago, DeadMan said:

A great course? Were you watching a different tournament?

Out of curiosity, what about this course don't you like?

(Personally, I'm not a huge fan of courses that are all water hazard, but that's just because I would likely not break 100)

[MacDutch]

4 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

In 1987, the winning score at the PGA was 287 (-1).  This course is difficult. If it wasn't for the Bear Trap, Tiger might have won this week.

Yeah, and if there were more Bear traps at this course he might not have made the cut. He played well, good enough to see him win again this year. But all holes count and he ended t12, not better, not worse.

[NEhomer]

Pretty disappointing play by the entire field. Can't really say that Thomas back into it but he didn't exactly win it either.

[Marty2019]

I have two thoughts about the Honda. 

I thought Tiger played really well, and it looks like he can win pretty soon. 

My other thought about the Honda was that it was really notable how hard it was for these pros to play those two 160-ish yard par 3 holes, #15 and #17.  They were scared to death by that Sunday pin position. 

 

[iacas]

Grades for Tiger

Let's hear 'em. Mine's an A-.

Tiger gains points for:

• Clubhead speed.
• Scoring in round 3 with his ballstriking. No putts were going in at all.
• Top 15 finish.
• Tee shots. Some were just smoked.

Tiger loses points for:

• Bailing out so often - well left on 15 and 17 on Saturday
• Still not taking advantage of the par fives.
• Holes 15 and 16.
• Tee shots. Some were still pretty bad. Nowhere near as bad as Torrey or even Riviera.

Compared against Tiger in his prime… B. But from what he can/should expect now, it's barely into the A range with an A-.

[Marty2019]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Grades for Tiger

Let's hear 'em. Mine's an A-.

Tiger gains points for:

• Clubhead speed.
• Scoring in round 3 with his ballstriking. No putts were going in at all.
• Top 15 finish.
• Tee shots. Some were just smoked.

Tiger loses points for:

• Bailing out so often - well left on 15 and 17 on Saturday
• Still not taking advantage of the par fives.
• Holes 15 and 16.
• Tee shots. Some were still pretty bad. Nowhere near as bad as Torrey or even Riviera.

Compared against Tiger in his prime… B. But from what he can/should expect now, it's barely into the A range with an A-.

I agree with all that. 

[DeadMan]

8 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Out of curiosity, what about this course don't you like?

(Personally, I'm not a huge fan of courses that are all water hazard, but that's just because I would likely not break 100)

Narrow, no strategy, no recovery shots, and there are no good holes outside of 18. The course is not risk/reward, just risk.

The fairways are about 30 yards wide at the maximum, and if you miss the fairway, you'll often find yourself in water. Basically every miss is going to be punished, which isn't enjoyable golf. For PGA Tour pros, it means that everybody plays the course in exactly the same way. Everybody is playing the same clubs off the tee to the same spot. There's no decision to make.

Think about the memorable holes. The bear trap is the most memorable section of the course, but that's only because it's difficult. 2 medium length par 3s over water with no room to miss and make par. Bleh. I don't really mind 16 as much, but it's still a boring hole. Other than those 3 holes, the only other memorable hole is 18. But when the memorable holes are memorable because they're extremely hard, it's not a good course.

For what it's worth, I don't mind when there's really tough holes. Not every hole need to be a gimme par or a great birdie chance. I think there should be hard holes mixed in, but PGA National is just entirely hard hole after hard hole.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Grades for Tiger

Let's hear 'em. Mine's an A-.

Tiger gains points for:

• Clubhead speed.
• Scoring in round 3 with his ballstriking. No putts were going in at all.
• Top 15 finish.
• Tee shots. Some were just smoked.

Tiger loses points for:

• Bailing out so often - well left on 15 and 17 on Saturday
• Still not taking advantage of the par fives.
• Holes 15 and 16.
• Tee shots. Some were still pretty bad. Nowhere near as bad as Torrey or even Riviera.

Compared against Tiger in his prime… B. But from what he can/should expect now, it's barely into the A range with an A-.

I give him a B+, because I'm docking him a grade for making a double bogey on a par 5 again. I agree with everyone of your points, though.

[HJJ003]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Grades for Tiger

Let's hear 'em. Mine's an A-.

Tiger gains points for:

• Clubhead speed.
• Scoring in round 3 with his ballstriking. No putts were going in at all.
• Top 15 finish.
• Tee shots. Some were just smoked.

Tiger loses points for:

• Bailing out so often - well left on 15 and 17 on Saturday
• Still not taking advantage of the par fives.
• Holes 15 and 16.
• Tee shots. Some were still pretty bad. Nowhere near as bad as Torrey or even Riviera.

Compared against Tiger in his prime… B. But from what he can/should expect now, it's barely into the A range with an A-.

Yeah my gut feel was B+ just due to the poor performance on par 5s which he should should of taken advantage of. A- is probably right considering his low amount of rounds played.

[Yukari]

B+ seems right to me.  His inability to take advantage of par 5's is very troubling.  His drives have greatly improved from the last week, but his putts on Saturday ... nothing seems to drops.  Missing it by inches on most of those birdie putts.  If he made at least half of those, he would've be in top 5.

[nevets88]

I missed this, apparently, CBS replayed Thomas' F-bomb 3 times.

Spoiler