Patrick Reed vs. the Rules of Golf

[Missouri Swede]

35 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I think I was the other way around. He placed three different clubs behind the ball before deciding to hit 3W. Kostis stated ‘ that shot wouldn’t have been possible from the original lie I saw.’ Something like that.

I don’t know what Kostis said. Koepka said 3 wood, then wedge (not saying who the player was). Starting at 2:10: 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Missouri Swede

[Vinsk]

49 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

I don’t know what Kostis said. Koepka said 3 wood, then wedge (not saying who the player was). Starting at 2:10: 

 

But he said ‘ some guy’ at the US OPEN. I thought we were talking about Reed specifically.

[Herkimer]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

No, nor have I seen it.

I think his definition needs to be determined. In a world where there should be NONE, if you see three infractions a year, is that "a lot"?

You're right. There should be none.  Three is not a lot, but it's three too many.  The question is whether Brooks thinks three is a lot. Also, is Brooks including "cheating" where there was no intent, which technically wouldn't be cheating?  I don't think Brooks should have made that statement unless he can explain exactly how he knows what he's talking about.  If you're going to cast shade, be prepared to back it up.

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

Peter Kostis says he‘s seen Patrick Reed improve his lie several times

---

Former CBS Sports broadcaster Peter Kostis...

 

WOW!  That's amazing coming from Peter. Kostis.  I now refuse to give Patrick Reed the benefit of the doubt any longer.  I think Peter should have informed the rules officials when he saw this cheating.  I think it was his duty at the time to protect the field and not speak out now about it years later.  

[colin007]

13 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

 I think Peter should have informed the rules officials when he saw this cheating.  I think it was his duty at the time to protect the field and not speak out now about it years later.  

His duty was to protect the product his company was broadcasting, which is what he was (shortsightedly) doing.

[Darkfrog]

43 minutes ago, colin007 said:

His duty was to protect the product his company was broadcasting, which is what he was (shortsightedly) doing.

In the NLU podcast Kostis mentions something along the lines of CBS instructing their broadcast crew to not become part of the story, implying that they were not encouraged to insert themselves in something like calling out a rules violation for a player. At least that was the gist I got.

[colin007]

17 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

In the NLU podcast Kostis mentions something along the lines of CBS instructing their broadcast crew to not become part of the story, implying that they were not encouraged to insert themselves in something like calling out a rules violation for a player. At least that was the gist I got.

Yup. Protecting their product.

[iacas]

48 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

In the NLU podcast Kostis mentions something along the lines of CBS instructing their broadcast crew to not become part of the story, implying that they were not encouraged to insert themselves in something like calling out a rules violation for a player. At least that was the gist I got.

Lame.

[Herkimer]

5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

In the NLU podcast Kostis mentions something along the lines of CBS instructing their broadcast crew to not become part of the story, implying that they were not encouraged to insert themselves in something like calling out a rules violation for a player. At least that was the gist I got.

But they thought nothing of showing where a ball landed in the rough when a player wasn't sure.  

[3jacker]

They should report what they see.

But who ever thought TV (anything) was fair and square. Peter had a great job with a really crummy organization. I don't blame him for trying to do what he's instructed.  He did what he could on a couple fronts - obviously given what happened last year.

[Bonvivant]

On 2/20/2020 at 12:30 PM, Darkfrog said:

In the NLU podcast Kostis mentions something along the lines of CBS instructing their broadcast crew to not become part of the story, implying that they were not encouraged to insert themselves in something like calling out a rules violation for a player. At least that was the gist I got.

I listened to this today, and wowsers, does he every speak the truth. What I found really interesting is that he literally laid out 4 times that he saw Reed improving his lie. He also mentioned that this is rare behavior, but that every generation has someone that does this sort of thing. I suppose we are just in the Reed era right now. He was also very forthcoming that he believed the punishment did not come close to fitting the "crime".

[No Mulligans]

Koepka has been vocal about pace of play violations and the pga not enforcing the rule.  Perhaps he considers that cheating.

And the secret colusion of leaving your ball down on the green as a backstop for another player.  Back when that was happening, that was happening quite often given that I was seeing it multiple times on the smaller sample size of what was shown on tv.  Mickelson claimed that the Lexi type move of placing her ball down a bit 'incorrectly' on the green happens often on the PGA (imo that appeared intentional).  Perhaps Koepka considers these types of things as cheating. 

For me Reed has become more entertaining, I like a villian to root against.

Edited February 26, 2020 by No Mulligans

[Bonvivant]

On 2/20/2020 at 1:19 PM, iacas said:

Lame.

I have a feeling this is instructions from the PGA tour itself, handed down to each of the broadcast corporations, but that is just speculation.

1 minute ago, No Mulligans said:

Koepka has been vocal about pace of play violations and the pga not enforcing the rule.  Perhaps he considers that cheating.

And the secret colusion of leaving your ball down on the green as a backstop for another player.  Back when that was happening, that was happening quite often given that I was seeing it multiple times on the smaller sample size of what was shown on tv.  Mickelson claimed that the Lexi type move of placing her ball down a bit 'incorrectly' on the green happens often on the PGA (imo that appeared intentional).  Perhaps Koepka considers these types of things as cheating. 

Considering there is a rule for each, I'd agree with him. Granted the PoP rule is a "should" and not a "must", but the lengths to which this is pushed and abused is absurd. They should be docking strokes for slow play at every event.

[Pretzel]

32 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Considering there is a rule for each, I'd agree with him. Granted the PoP rule is a "should" and not a "must", but the lengths to which this is pushed and abused is absurd. They should be docking strokes for slow play at every event.

I would agree with this sentiment. To not consider violations of the rules as cheating and penalize them accordingly, whether they be intentional or careless, undermines the entire purpose of having rules in the first place. 

As far as pace of play goes, I guarantee you the PGA Tour could play their rounds in 4.5 hours or less every single day of every single tournament if they did one thing: enforced the USGA pace of play policy using Rule 5.6a.

Spoiler

GROUP OUT OF POSITION – MONITORED BY A RULES ROVER

• Any group that is out of position may be monitored by a Rules Rover who will individually time strokes made by a player(s).
• Each player is permitted a maximum of 40 seconds to make a stroke. A player who exceeds 40 seconds is considered to have made a bad time.
• Except on the putting green, the timing of a player’s stroke begins when it is the player’s turn to play without interference or distraction. Time spent determining yardage and other conditions, such as wind, will count as time taken for the stroke.
• On the putting green, the timing of a player’s stroke begins when it is the player’s turn to play without interference or distraction and after a player has completed the actions allowed under Rule 13.1, pro- vided the player is not unreasonably delaying play. Time spent surveying the line of play from any angle will also count as time taken for the stroke.
• Any player(s) concerned about another player(s) in the group should request a Rules Rover to monitor the group.
• Bad times and other information gathered at any time by the Rules Committee may be used during the review process. If the group becomes liable to penalty, bad times will be considered when determining penalties.
• Regardless of position, if the Pace of Play Committee determines that a player(s) in the group is delaying play of their own group, following groups or the com- petition in general:
  • The player(s) may be spoken to by a Rules Rover.
  • The penalty for breach of Rule 5.6a (Unreasonable Delay of Play) may be applied. [Emphasis mine]

Spoiler

a. Unreasonable Delay of Play

A player must not unreasonably delay play, either when playing a hole or between two holes.

A player may be allowed a short delay for certain reasons, such as:

• When the player seeks help from a referee or the Committee,

• When the player becomes injured or ill, or

• When there is another good reason.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 5.6a:

• Penalty for first breach: One penalty stroke.

• Penalty for second breach: General Penalty.

• Penalty for third breach: Disqualification.

If the player unreasonably delays play between two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

Players would be allowed 40 seconds per shot. Players who fail to do this will be assessed one penalty stroke on the first occurrence. The second occurrence results in a two stroke penalty (or loss of hole in match play). The third, and final, occurrence is disqualification. 

As soon as penalties are on the table and penalties are strictly and evenly enforced the slow play problem will vanish literally overnight. When playing slow means losing strokes or possible disqualification, it will cause all the slow players on tour to suddenly play at a reasonable pace like they should. The fact that the PGA hasn't done this yet is proof enough that they don't actually care about slow play, considering the penalties they have given are few and far between.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Bonvivant said:

I have a feeling this is instructions from the PGA tour itself, handed down to each of the broadcast corporations, but that is just speculation.

He said it was from Chirkinian.

[Beastie]

2021 Farmers Insurance at Torrey Pines Patrick Reed is “pushing the envelope “ according to Rich Beem. It certainly looked like he was manufacturing a stance.

[Double Mocha Man]

The embedded ball routine was bogus.  His ball landed and made a deep hole, then bounced out a foot forward.  But Reed convinced the rules official that his ball was in that hole and he pulled it out before the ref got there.  TV says otherwise.  He picked up his ball, but not out of that deep hole.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[Beastie]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

The embedded ball routine was bogus.  His ball landed and made a deep hole, then bounced out a foot forward.  But Reed convinced the rules official that his ball was in that hole and he pulled it out before the ref got there.  TV says otherwise.  He picked up his ball, but not out of that deep hole.

One golf hole, two dubious drops.. 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Beastie said:

2021 Farmers Insurance at Torrey Pines Patrick Reed is “pushing the envelope “ according to Rich Beem. It certainly looked like he was manufacturing a stance.

Video?