"Putting is a huge part of the game."

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Patch said:

I don't see there ever being an end to the drive for show putt for dough scenario. Some pros still use the saying, and to them it probably means something. Someone new to the game reads, or hears this from a pga pro, then the putt must be more important, since it  came from a professional. 

That’s a particularly dour view. I think the world is changing. Slowly, yes.

@GrandStranded, I classify short game as about 65 yards and in. All that does is shift the numbers even more in favor of the full swing. Broadie counts a 98-yard shot as a short game shot.

[b101]

1 hour ago, jsgolfer said:

 

And this table shows what I need to work on that's affecting my scoring at the moment. 10 greens in my last three rounds, shot 76, 75, 79. I definitely can putt better and need to work on three putt avoidance. 

Clear evidence of a winter of range work and putting mat practice rather than actually getting on practice greens and getting used to the speed.

Good table!

[GrandStranded]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

That’s a particularly dour view. I think the world is changing. Slowly, yes.

@GrandStranded, I classify short game as about 65 yards and in. All that does is shift the numbers even more in favor of the full swing. Broadie counts a 98-yard shot as a short game shot.

I'm no expert obviously, and can see an argument for both views, but I always thought more the way of the <65 yard shot also, because it requires me to use something other then a full swing.

Edited March 30, 2018 by GrandStranded

[lastings]

This thread is absolutely fascinating.   

 

to note, from a couple posts above..    Drive for show, putt for dough is a legit and meaningful statement..    if you are a professional ball striker, competing against a bunch of other professional ball strikers.   

but for now, I've got about 10 strokes to shave off my long game, before I stress about the 2 or 3 I can get from the flat-stick. 

 

 

 

 

[Patch]

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

That’s a particularly dour view. I think the world is changing. Slowly, yes.

@GrandStranded, I classify short game as about 65 yards and in. All that does is shift the numbers even more in favor of the full swing. Broadie counts a 98-yard shot as a short game shot.

"Dour"? Well maybe, a little, but I was happy, and sincere when I wrote it. 

[lastings]

15 hours ago, MrGolfguy67 said:

Actually what's happening is y'all are totally dismissing my point of view, not giving it any credibility or respect at all. Credibility and respect I deserve as a human being presenting my side of things. Y'all are trying to force your point of view down my throat. And then getting very upset because I won't fall in line and march in step with your line of thinking. I've answered the hypothetical questions honestly, but again since my answers don't line up with y'alls way of thinking they are being totally dismissed.

so, I think i've figured it out,  @MrGolfguy67 was just not being clear enough, but he's absolutely right.   All things being completely equal, you will score better when you putt well, than when you don't.  41 years of personal experience shows that HIS scores are better when HE putts well.   don't mind comparing his scores to that of, say, a good ball striker.   because he won't make that comparison.  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by lastings

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, lastings said:

to note, from a couple posts above..    Drive for show, putt for dough is a legit and meaningful statement..    if you are a professional ball striker, competing against a bunch of other professional ball strikers.

That’s not accurate either.

Even on the PGA Tour the better ballstrikers do better.

[lastings]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

That’s not accurate either.

Even on the PGA Tour the better ballstrikers do better.

True.  But when you look at a professional tournament, the guy that got 2nd probably had a pretty dang good ball striking weekend too. Sometimes in those situations, the guy that putted better wins.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, lastings said:

True.  But when you look at a professional tournament, the guy that got 2nd probably had a pretty dang good ball striking weekend too. Sometimes in those situations, the guy that putted better wins.

 

The point isn’t between the guys who finished first and second.

Its the consistent top 10 or so players versus the guys in the 80s, or not keeping their card, or whatever.

One place? C’mon.

[lastings]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

The point isn’t between the guys who finished first and second.

Its the consistent top 10 or so players versus the guys in the 80s, or not keeping their card, or whatever.

One place? C’mon.

Sorry.  I didn’t know there was a point to this thread.  

[MacDutch]

Thanks all, I had a good read for 30 minutes on this thread. 

Why so funny? Because  @MrGolfguy67 is only talking about his own game and from his own perspective. His arguments are only about what he experienced in his golflife. I bet he loves to watch Gary Player. @iacasand others can use all the logic and data in the world, but that will not change his mind about his own game, which he played for 41 years. Yesterday he putted better so he scored better, eat that!

Hey 67 guy, you are so wrong! 

 

 

[JonMA1]

For anyone new to the game and reading this topic, I would say just think this over before going out with a practice plan based on others' beliefs. Consider the skills necessary and how the strengths and weaknesses affect your scores. Take statistics. Count the strokes added due to poor execution of each type of shot and be objective about them. Consider the missed 3 footer or poor lag putt, but don't put more weight on those than you would a duffed iron shot or penalty stroke. Also consider how difficult it is to learn each skill. 

"Putt for dough" is a very common opinion among those who are better skilled than me. But it's in my nature to at least question what people say or post - as I often do here (probably more than I should). But that's how my messed up brain is wired. A statement has to make sense to me and must tie it in to my experiences and my logic for me to embrace it.

All I'm suggesting is to think for yourselves and don't buy into a cliché without a little thought.

[Wally Fairway]

Here is the simple answer to make more birdies and make more putts.
Hit your approach shots closer to the hole, and in order to do that more times hit your drives longer and in the fairway.

Simple game, simple game plan - now if it were only so easy to execute it

If you are not able to hit it on the green in regulation more often, and closer to the hole then your only hope is to make more of those longer putts.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, MacDutch said:

Thanks all, I had a good read for 30 minutes on this thread. 

Why so funny? Because  @MrGolfguy67 is only talking about his own game and from his own perspective. His arguments are only about what he experienced in his golflife. I bet he loves to watch Gary Player. @iacasand others can use all the logic and data in the world, but that will not change his mind about his own game, which he played for 41 years. Yesterday he putted better so he scored better, eat that!

Hey 67 guy, you are so wrong! 

No, his original comment is not at all about his game alone.

[onthehunt526]

@iacas,

You said about 65 yards is where the short game starts. I'd agree with you mostly with one caveat. I think the short game more or less starts when you can no longer make a standard full swing motion to play a shot. For some golfers it could be 60 -65 yards as you stated, others such as slow swinging seniors could be 50 yards, could be 30 or 40 for some women.

Back to the topic. Unless putting is a glaring weakness in one's game he shouldn't practice it more than about 15% of the time.

[saevel25]

47 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

You said about 65 yards is where the short game starts. I'd agree with you mostly with one caveat. I think the short game more or less starts when you can no longer make a standard full swing motion to play a shot. For some golfers it could be 60 -65 yards as you stated, others such as slow swinging seniors could be 50 yards, could be 30 or 40 for some women.

I think it is a good average. 

[sjduffers]

On 3/29/2018 at 1:55 PM, klineka said:

2 rounds is not a large enough sample size to prove a point, but if you want to go that route...

My personal best GIR round - 15 GIR, 36 putts, shot +3 - 74 (Par 71) with two 3 putts (1 birdie)

My personal best putting round -  7 GIR, 28 putts, shot + 6 - 78 (Par 72) with zero 3 putts (2 birdies)

 

3 shots better in relation to par even though it took me 8 more putts. 

I'd like to add a similar data point to this, as well. 

My best putting round had 24 putts and only 3 GIRs (1 birdie) - no 3-putts, 10 up and downs (12 1 putts) and a total of 81 (+9).

One of my best ball striking round with 10 GIRs had 38 putts (no birdie, 3 3-putts), only 1 up and down and a total of.... drum roll... 82 (+10).  Another day on that same course, I had also 10 GIRs, but 34 putts (with no birdie and no 3-putt) for a total of 78 (+6).

The second (and third) round noted here was on a course where putting is much harder (for me, a decent to good putter) due to a variety of factors. But despite the additional 14 putts it took me that day, compared to the first noted round, the score was only 1 worse. On the other round noted above, the score was better by 3, with 10 putts more.

Why? much better ball striking, even though it was not a great one by many low handicappers' standard, who routinely have 14-16 GIRs on good ball striking days. QED.

[NM Golf]

Do you think the ancient Greek philosophers who first put forth the idea that the earth was round had to deal with constant dimwits telling them they were wrong? You think Pythagoras had some dolt standing behind him going, "I know you have all this Mathematical proof, but in my personal experience of walking back and forth to the john tells me the world's flat."

I mean good god people, is it that hard to get your head around? THE LONG GAME IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SHORT GAME. It's not an opinion, it's a freaking fact. The best thing is I have been saying for years that the long game was more important, I am just happy as a pig in poop to finally have LSW and ESC to factually support my stance. 

But I guess you will always have that person that knows more than everyone else. The person that is a self made expert. Well keep practicing your 30 foot putts, one less person I have to worry about beating. sheesh! 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by NM Golf