Kuchar Pays Caddie $5k, Is Shamed, Pays $50k

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, chspeed said:

It makes it fun.

Hypothetical that's fun: "What would you do if you won $1.2M playing golf?"

Hypothetical that's not fun: "Let's all judge someone without knowing much of anything at all, including the most important facts."

This isn't really a true hypothetical. It's a real-world situation with real world people.

The horse is now glue.

[turtleback]

The only conclusion I can come to after reading all of this is that Tom Gillis is a complete douche for putting his nose into other people's business.  And a double douche for doing it in a public, 'virtue signalling' manner.

[klineka]

Additional details have come forward in this situation.

The caddie was paid $5,000 and was later offered an additional $15,000, which he turned down, because "he still hoped to receive another $45,000 from Kuchar, for a total of $50,000, the sum he thinks is a fair share of Kuchar's $1.3 million first-place check."

If someone offered me $15,000 even though I expected $45,000, I'm not turning down the $15,000 in hopes that I might get more later. That's dumb.

Looks like the original agreement between the caddie and Kuchar was "that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings"

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/12/they-can-keep-their-money-kuchars-fill-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/

 

[DeadMan]

One thing the article doesn't make clear is when he was offered the additional $15,000. I wonder if it came after the rumor started.

[colin007]

The caddie makes more in his regular job than I do lol.

Yeah, turning down an offer because you expected more but aren't likely to get any other offers is stoooopid

[p1n9183]

If you agree for 3 or 5K.. and extra cash for the player earnings, just take what ever they give you and move on.

As a golf fan I will definetively would work for free that week, it´s an incredible experience.

If i work as a caddie i would just charge him with my regular fee and add that PGA tour win to my resume. It will definitively gave me better chances of winning more money for my work or even the posibility to caddie for a tour pro in the future. This caddie is now viewed as a conflicting one, non good player would look for his services.

At the Argentine open played at the end of 2018 (part of the PGA Latinoamerica Tour), a US professional golfer made a hole in one and won a Car. He gave it to his caddie, a local caddie that only carry his bag for that week, he didn´t finish top 10 and the price money he erned was almost nothing.      

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

If you agree for 3 or 5K.. and extra cash for the player earnings, just take what ever they give you and move on.

I agree, somewhat, sure.

22 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

As a golf fan I will definetively would work for free that week, it´s an incredible experience.

He's not, though, and comparing what you'd work for one week versus what he'd work for isn't fair to him.

I did note that in the article it says he makes up to $200 per day, but often closer to half that. So ~$150/day -> $5k for four days of work… I can see both sides of this. They agreed upon $3k, and he got 66% on top of that. In cash.

[NM Golf]

IMHO Kuchar comes out looking like a cheap bastard. They agreed on a price ($3000) for the week plus a bonus depending on how Kuchar placed. Kuchar then wins the tournament and doesn't even double the guy's salary. I realize the guy normally doesn't make a ton of money, but a $2000 bonus for winning a golf tournament worth over a million? I think the $15,000 offer was fair, but obviously hush money. I wonder if Kuchar would have paid an American caddy in such a way?

[MacDutch]

If I read the info correct, the caddie was promised a bonus (before the tournament started). An unspecified percentage of the prize-money. So he got $2,000 bonus, which is less then 0.2%. They offered to pay $20,000, so thats $17,000 bonus, which is +/- 1.5%. Caddie turned that down, he expected a total of $50,000.

The big problem here is the ‘unspecified percentage’. This will allways give problems. The Kuchar team is a professional team and should not make such deals.

[klineka]

5 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

The Kuchar team is a professional team and should not make such deals.

A more accurate way of phrasing that is

"The Kuchar team is a business team and made a deal that put their profits/interests first, like any smart business team would do."

It takes two sides to agree to a deal. It's not like Kuchar held the caddie hostage and forced him to agree to the deal with unspecified terms.

Edited February 12, 2019 by klineka

[MacDutch]

7 minutes ago, klineka said:

A more accurate way of phrasing that is

"The Kuchar team is a business team and made a deal that put their profits/interests first, like any smart business team would do."

It takes two sides to agree to a deal. It's not like Kuchar held the caddie hostage and forced him to agree to the deal with unspecified terms.

Not to me, the Kuchar team is a multi million dollar professional team. I call it taking advantage of the situation.  That is,  If the info is correct.

[freshmanUTA]

In my opinion, this is all completely blown out of the water. I’ve caddied for low tier profiessionals on a few occassions. I was happy to walk away with ~$400 for a weekends work. I’d have been just as happy if Kuchar asked me to hold his bag for $3000 for 4 days. I’m not his caddy, I didn’t travel with him the entire season sometimes forfeiting profit for missed cuts, etc. 

At the end of the day the guy carried his clubs. It’s not a million dollar job.

[Vinsk]

I see both sides to this honestly. But I think what hasn’t been mentioned and isn’t necessarily a factor.. it’s not like Kuchar is a lottery winner, scored a big win and needs to be cautious on how much he shares of it. Kuchar is a multi-millionaire. Even 50k is peanuts to him. Without question if I had Kuchar’s money and was in this special circumstance I would’ve given the caddie 50k. Is Kuchar obligated to? No. Should the caddie be grateful for 15k? Sure. 

[chspeed]

From Mark Steinberg (Kuchar's agent): “The “reports [sic] on what Matt’s caddie was offered are wildly inaccurate. However, it is inappropriate to discuss those amounts publicly.”

‘They can keep their money’: Kuchar’s fill-in caddie breaks silence over pay dispute – Golf

 

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

IMHO Kuchar comes out looking like a cheap bastard. They agreed on a price ($3000) for the week plus a bonus depending on how Kuchar placed. Kuchar then wins the tournament and doesn't even double the guy's salary.

Maybe, maybe not.

When did Kuchar offer up the $15k? He probably did so well in advance of the January 29th time frame in which Steinberg said "what Matt has offered is fair".

Cuz if so, and he gave him $20k (offered), that's almost 7x his agreed upon pay.

Also, in the interview in December 2018, the caddie said:

Quote

11. Asked if he made more money than Favela last week, Ortiz said, “I hope so!” He had not yet received or discussed his pay with Kuchar. He knows the standard caddie bonus is 10 percent of the winner’s share. Kuchar earned $1.3 million for his win, his first since 2014.

https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2018/11/13/matt-kuchar-mayakoba-caddie-18-things-to-know-el-tucan/

Now he says he got $5k in cash Sunday night? Hmmmmm.

[klineka]

33 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Not to me, the Kuchar team is a multi million dollar professional team. I call it taking advantage of the situation. 

Multi million dollar professional teams/businesses exist, thrive, and grow by making business decisions that take advantage of the situation in front of them and do what is most profitable for them. Kuchar made a deal that was in his best interests.

The caddie wasnt forced to agree to the deal but he did anyway, then turned down an offer for nearly 7x his agreed upon pay. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, klineka said:

Multi million dollar professional teams/businesses exist, thrive, and grow by making business decisions that take advantage of the situation in front of them and do what is most profitable for them. Kuchar made a deal that was in his best interests.

Kevin, dude, his best interests also include having an attractive or good reputation, too. They're not all literally dollars and cents.

4 minutes ago, klineka said:

The caddie wasnt forced to agree to the deal but he did anyway, then turned down an offer for nearly 7x his agreed upon pay. 

Supposedly.

Given the contradictions, I'm still not sure what actually has happened in this whole thing, so, I'm getting off the train. It's too much speculation, not enough "known" for me.

[klineka]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Kevin, dude, his best interests also include having an attractive or good reputation, too. They're not all literally dollars and cents.

That makes sense.

Not that it really matters or affects the story at all, but it makes me wonder if Kuchar would have paid him more had he known that the payment amount would have been made public. Maybe. Maybe not.