To Wedge Or Not Around The Green...

[WillieT]

I was catching some of the LPGA Aussie Open coverage today on the GC.  I heard one of the commentators mention how the golfers were almost exclusive on using wedges around the greens and not doing bump and runs with 7 & 8 irons.  It has me wondering if this a prevailing shot selection process these days with most players to use wedges more around the greens as opposed to bump and running with irons.  As a newbie, I love taking my 5 - 8 irons and work on bump and run shots in the yard.  Practicing everything from 5 to 30 yard chips.  I pick my target zone and then focus on landing the balls there. So is bump and run becoming a thing of the past or am I keying on an abstract thought of a golf commentator. 

  

[DaveP043]

In many cases it takes less precision to use a club with some bounce, like a wedge.  Also, in certain types of grasses, the bump and run isn't very reliable, the ball's first bounce can be really "sticky".  If you check out the instructional content here, you'll find some good stuff about pitching and chipping:

 

[Club Rat]

Highly skilled players can chip shots and control distance with spin to have less rollout.
Using bump and run works well, but has limitations when it can be used.
When certain shots require a difficult option, I try to leave the next shot with a possibility of making a putt. 

[Patch]

I was taught that for the most partt, chip shots were more controllable, distance wise, than the bump, and run shots. Even pitch shots were more dependable than the B&Rs. 

In the end, it still boils down to what the individual golfer can do, and what their favorite shot is for getting close to the cup.

I will sometimes hit B&Rs when quite a ways from the green, with a firm fairway, and nothing in the way. Other times I might just hit a flop shot.  

[Piz]

The bump and run works fine if the ground conditions are appropriate to the stroke.  I play on Bermuda, most of the time, and it often happens that the club head momentum necessary the get the club through the grass is too much for the shot as envisioned.  That is where more loft (and bounce) is a better choice.  

[WillieT]

I took DaveP043's advise and chased down some reading over in the Instructional Area and mvmac's posts.  One that caught my eye was where he wrote: "Let's say I'm six paces off the green and have 30 feet of green to the hole, I can make a simple "chitch" stroke with a 7 iron where I would really have to "hit it" with a putter which can create some inconsistencies with contact and how the ball launches off the putter.  Point of the video is to give people another option, go out and experiment with it and see if it works for them."   This reminded me of my error last Friday when I "thought" it best to try to punch the ball from the edge of the rough in a slight downhill lie. I was about 10' from the edge of the fringe and should have used what he calls a "chitch" shot with a wedge.  Instead when I punched it with the putter, it not only left the rough, but rolled right past the green and took the downhill ride till about 30' from the hole.  Needless to say I learned my lesson. If I had taken a moment to just use the putter stroke with the wedge I would have likely been set up well to make a decent putt. Thanks for the input and how it really boils down to what the situation is and what the skill set is of the player at that moment.  For me, I will be working on the putter stroke with the 7i - SW sticks. 

[TN94z]

I love the putter stroke with a 7 and below. It's a go to for me when I have nothing in the way. To me, it's very consistent.

[lastings]

They're all good options, depending on the situation and the ground you are running on.   But I, personally, like to use the same wedge every time.   If you always use the same wedge, your rollout is very consistent.   you really only have to judge how the slope will affect rollout, rather than having an added intangible of different rollouts for different clubs.  

[klineka]

8 minutes ago, lastings said:

But I, personally, like to use the same wedge every time.   If you always use the same wedge, your rollout is very consistent.   you really only have to judge how the slope will affect rollout, rather than having an added intangible of different rollouts for different clubs.  

Same here. I use my 50 degree wedge as often as possible around the green. Most of the courses I play are relatively flat around the greens so its easy to hit low chips and let the ball roll as much as I can. I'm very comfortable hitting bump and run type chips with the 50 degree

If I cant hit the bump and run, then I'll use my 54 or 60 depending on how high I need the shot to go, but more often than not I'm looking to see if there's any chance of me using my 50 degree first.

I have never been comfortable with using actual irons for my bump and runs, mainly because the ball felt too jumpy/springy off the clubface, but that was with my previous irons which were Game Improvement irons.

[TN94z]

35 minutes ago, klineka said:

I have never been comfortable with using actual irons for my bump and runs, mainly because the ball felt too jumpy/springy off the clubface, but that was with my previous irons which were Game Improvement irons.

That's actually why I like using them. Very little swing (putting swing) and it can get good distance. Obviously, I have practiced and have a good idea on distances, but that's the main reason I like the shot. I do use my wedge as well but not as confident with it.

Edited February 20, 2019 by TN94z

[Fourputt]

18 hours ago, WillieT said:

I was catching some of the LPGA Aussie Open coverage today on the GC.  I heard one of the commentators mention how the golfers were almost exclusive on using wedges around the greens and not doing bump and runs with 7 & 8 irons.  It has me wondering if this a prevailing shot selection process these days with most players to use wedges more around the greens as opposed to bump and running with irons.  As a newbie, I love taking my 5 - 8 irons and work on bump and run shots in the yard.  Practicing everything from 5 to 30 yard chips.  I pick my target zone and then focus on landing the balls there. So is bump and run becoming a thing of the past or am I keying on an abstract thought of a golf commentator. 

  

First I want to be sure that we are talking about the same thing.  A "bump and run" has traditionally been a shot that is "bumped" into a hill or mound short of the putting surface to kill the speed and let the ball roll to the hole.  It's been a common shot in links golf, in part because of the design of the courses, and because wind can so often be a factor for any shot that spends too much time in the air.  With the proliferation of high loft wedges, the bump and run isn't seen as often these days, but I did see a pro use it a couple of weeks ago in a PGA Tour tournament.  

It sounds like what you are describing is just a routine chip, using a lower lofted club to get the ball rolling as soon as possible.  Once again, it's a shot not seen as much in the modern game because of the variety of wedges that so many players carry.  Also, the greens are so much faster than they used to be that controlling the roll out from a 7 iron "chip and roll" tends to be more difficult than pitching the ball 1/3 to 1/2 of the distance and allowing for less roll.  

I used to be an advocate of the chip and roll, and used to use a 8 iron a lot around the greens.  I don't carry 4 wedges like so many do these days... my highest loft is 56 degrees.  However, I now use my 51 degree gap wedge for about 95% of my greenside chips and pitches.

[ChetlovesMer]

I'd like to thank @Fourputt because I was about to write the same thing about the Bump and Run vs the Chip. I learned golf on a links course 25 years ago and the bump and run was a common technique and a tool you needed in your toolbox. 

Some of the reasons it has gone by the wayside have been mentioned above. I also think the modern golf iron's lofts have changed things as well. I used to chip with my 8 and 9 iron, today I chip with my PW and my GW, but if you examine the lofts on those clubs, it's pretty similar to what my 8 and 9 used to be. 

A simple chip and leak isn't anywhere near as cool looking as a 2-hop-stopper, but it can be just as effective. Basically get it as close to the hole as you can... and ideally in it. 

[WillieT]

10 hours ago, Fourputt said:

First I want to be sure that we are talking about the same thing.  A "bump and run" has traditionally been a shot that is "bumped" into a hill or mound short of the putting surface to kill the speed and let the ball roll to the hole.  It's been a common shot in links golf, in part because of the design of the courses, and because wind can so often be a factor for any shot that spends too much time in the air.  With the proliferation of high loft wedges, the bump and run isn't seen as often these days, but I did see a pro use it a couple of weeks ago in a PGA Tour tournament.  

It sounds like what you are describing is just a routine chip, using a lower lofted club to get the ball rolling as soon as possible.  Once again, it's a shot not seen as much in the modern game because of the variety of wedges that so many players carry.  Also, the greens are so much faster than they used to be that controlling the roll out from a 7 iron "chip and roll" tends to be more difficult than pitching the ball 1/3 to 1/2 of the distance and allowing for less roll.  

I used to be an advocate of the chip and roll, and used to use a 8 iron a lot around the greens.  I don't carry 4 wedges like so many do these days... my highest loft is 56 degrees.  However, I now use my 51 degree gap wedge for about 95% of my greenside chips and pitches.

Thanks guys for clarifying the terminology as to what is a proper bump and run versus a routine chip shot and it makes perfect sense.  You have given me inspiration to work more on my 52* wedge work.  I am going to do more research on "bump and run" shots to see how they truly work.  

[NJpatbee]

I almost always use a pitching wedge and my goal is to land on the green and roll out to the pin.  

[3jacker]

Greens are so incredibly fast on Tour these days that what used to be a 9-iron chip is now an LW because the rollout is so long.  I really think that's most of the reason.

Even on public/private courses, improvements in grass has led to quicker greens.  I recall in high school (l1989ish) I chipped regularly with an 7-iron.  Seems these days I rarely go below a 9. My chipping "trajectory" hasn't changed.

Edited February 21, 2019 by 3jacker

[JxQx]

I think a lot of people like to get away from the chance of getting a bad bounce when hitting into a hill/fringe/etc using a bump and run .The probability of getting a bad bounce is way lower hitting directly onto the putting surface using a chip or pitch shot. 

[WillieT]

6 hours ago, 3jacker said:

Greens are so incredibly fast on Tour these days that what used to be a 9-iron chip is now an LW because the rollout is so long.  I really think that's most of the reason.

Even on public/private courses, improvements in grass has led to quicker greens.  I recall in high school (l1989ish) I chipped regularly with an 7-iron.  Seems these days I rarely go below a 9. My chipping "trajectory" hasn't changed.

Interesting insight and makes sense. This would make sense why the trend appears to be using wedges in lieu of irons on bump and run/chips around the greens.  And as JxQx said, more and more folks tend to want to up and down the ball onto the green rather than roll in.  Also as I was comparing lofts of irons these days - my 9i is 44* (its an early edition TA 845s Silver Scot) and I have seen current 9 irons in the upper 30's (which is between my current 7i @ 36* and 8i@ 40* (again TA 845s Silver Scot).  So it makes sense - with improved greens (as compared to the original greens of long ago where bump and run was a necessity on approaches), better club technology - it becomes easier to see why "bump and run" is a fading skill whereas chipping with wedges is the norm.  Good talk folks, thanks for helping this newbie learn a little more about this game.   

[TheWoodBoss]

I use my 7 iron for the bump and run shots if the terrain is fairly smooth. I was about 15 feet off the green after my third shot on a par 4 the other day. The green was mounded up a bit probably a good 3 feet above my feet and the pin about 10 feet into the green. I gave the ball basically a hard putter shot, it went airborne and hit my side of the top of the mound which took most of the steam out of it bounced to the edge of the green rolled toward the cup and then into the cup. I can usually get it close on shots like this but this time it worked out really well. I have not played much in years, where I used to be pretty good with flopping a wedge I'll duff it now so I'm back to what I find is easier for now.