USGA/R&A Distance Insights Project (Updated Feb. 2021)

[DaveP043]

30 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

He makes some sense. These are some of the points posters have made in this thread.

That's the same article linked by @ChetlovesMer about a dozen posts back.  I agree, it makes sense, but Brandel doesn't suggest a mechanism for making it happen.  Will the PGA Tour voluntarily take steps to reduce driving distance in its events, let the grass in the fairways grow?  I just don't know.

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

That's the same article linked by @ChetlovesMer about a dozen posts back.  I agree, it makes sense, but Brandel doesn't suggest a mechanism for making it happen.  Will the PGA Tour voluntarily take steps to reduce driving distance in its events, let the grass in the fairways grow?  I just don't know.

Agree. They don’t always get lots of roll from the fairway. Penal rough can help, but BD and others were still hitting greens at the US Open in 4” rough.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

He makes some sense. These are some of the points posters have made in this thread.

The lousy use of statistics really doesn’t do it for me, though. His solution is basically:

• Taller rough.
• Taller fairways.
• Slower greens.

Meh.

I think the “solution” is that fairways and greens should be firmer. Like the Presidents Cup in Australia. Distance was less important there, and you still had to play really good golf. You had to control where you landed the ball, the spin, etc. You had to play from the fairways more so, and sometimes the angle mattered because the ball could roll.

But this faces the same problem the pro-rollback people have: the PGA Tour probably won’t go for it.

[MiuraMan]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:06 AM, iacas said:

I think the “solution” is that fairways and greens should be firmer. Like the Presidents Cup in Australia. Distance was less important there, and you still had to play really good golf. You had to control where you landed the ball, the spin, etc. You had to play from the fairways more so, and sometimes the angle mattered because the ball could roll.

But this faces the same problem the pro-rollback people have: the PGA Tour probably won’t go for it.

I agree fast and firm is my preference for our fields of play. To satisfy my curiosity I looked at the weather averages for Melbourne in December:

"The average minimum temperature (usually the minimum temperature is noted during the night) in Melbourne in December is 14.4°C (57.92°F). The amount of rain in December is normal with an average of 58mm (2.3in). The average maximum temperature lies around 25.0°C (77°F). With a water temperature of around 16.0°C (60.8°F), this is not the best month to swim. If you enjoy looking at a blue sky and like sunbathing than this month is a great period to visit Melbourne. It has 265 hours of sun."

Talk about ideal golf weather!! 

I live in lower Delaware; along the coast where the avg rainfall is around 46"; in 2020 we had over 80" of rain. There were a lot of "CPO" days - at least 60% of the time. This year was not fast and firm. 

[cutchemist42]

On 1/7/2021 at 8:25 AM, boogielicious said:

Agree. They don’t always get lots of roll from the fairway. Penal rough can help, but BD and others were still hitting greens at the US Open in 4” rough.

I have read commentary that's because you can hit wedges at those speeds out of that length of rough fine. A 6i/7i could produce a different result 

Not my original opinion but I think it might make sense.

Putting that aside...I do think the Presidents Cup was a better golf/tv product than anything the PGA puts out. Seemed like it was popular too.

So I'm honestly asking.....why doesnt the PGA like their events being more like that? 

My preference would be to not have every event like the Presidents Cup, as I think variety is good. However the PGA product does not give me that variety currently.

Edited January 13, 2021 by cutchemist42

[iacas]

5 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

So I'm honestly asking.....why doesnt the PGA like their events being more like that? 

Two reasons.

• Tour players might complain it’s too difficult. The Presidents Cup is better players generally.
• Soil and weather won’t allow firm/fast in most courses.
• Bonus: they might not think brown looks as good on TV.

[cutchemist42]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

Two reasons.

• Tour players might complain it’s too difficult. The Presidents Cup is better players generally.
• Soil and weather won’t allow firm/fast in most courses.
• Bonus: they might not think brown looks as good on TV.

Ah, yeah your points make sense.

I dislike the thought behind the first though personally. I dont think less of a soccer or football player when their play looks worse in conditions that arent perfect. 

You 2nd point would work really well for me. If some courses simply cant play firm and fast, it would result in the variety I would want if I were PGA commish.

Is firm and fast a southern or northern thing??

 

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Is firm and fast a southern or northern thing??

People or golf courses? 🤭

[iacas]

 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I always think that's a funny argument. It seems to be pretty exclusive to golf (mmm... sometimes baseball). I mean I don't hear anyone complain that Y.A. Tittle likely wouldn't have been able to compete in today's NFL. Or that Bob Cousy likely couldn't compete in today's NBA. Athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than they used to be. ... Sorry. 

Having said that perhaps Corey Pavin would have had a burning desire to compete in today's PGA and perhaps he would have developed his game totally differently. Xander Schauffele competes on tour and I think he's only 4 foot 2 or something like that. 💪🤪

[Double Mocha Man]

41 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Xander Schauffele competes on tour and I think he's only 4 foot 2 or something like that. 💪🤪

I just sent a tweet to Xander telling him you said he was 4' 2".  Jeez, he's at least 4' 3".

[klineka]

37 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Xander Schauffele competes on tour and I think he's only 4 foot 2 or something like that. 💪🤪

Off topic but FWIW Xander isn't that small compared to his peers, he's listed at 5'10" and 175lbs, basically within an inch or two and 10-15lbs of Rory, JT, Fowler, Fleetwood, etc

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Off topic but FWIW Xander isn't that small compared to his peers, he's listed at 5'10" and 175lbs, basically within an inch or two and 10-15lbs of Rory, JT, Fowler, Fleetwood, etc

I saw him in person. I think they took his measurements with some platform shoes on. ... just saying. 

[dennyjones]

3 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Xander Schauffele competes on tour and I think he's only 4 foot 2 or something like that. 💪🤪

I like his golf!   He's at least 5' something.  

[Missouri Swede]

4 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than they used to be. ... Sorry. 

Similar thoughts from McIlroy:

Quote

The best players will find a way because they always have.

Rory McIlroy once said the game is changing but not necessarily for the worse. Every generation gets better with more knowledge and science — and yes, technology — at its disposal.

“So if we're not better,” he concluded, “then we're doing a pretty bad job.”

from:

Column: Lower scores just an example of golf evolving | Hosted

---

HONOLULU (AP) — Chris Kirk shot 65 four days in a row and it wasn't enough to win on the PGA Tour.Joaquin Niemann can appreciate the feeling. The dynamic 22-year-old from Chile played both tournaments in...

 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

11 hours ago, dennyjones said:

I like his golf!   He's at least 5' something.  

I know. I like his golf too. I was being facetious. Obviously he's taller than 4' 2". 

Somebody told me they list him at 5'10". I think they list Tom Cruise at 5'10" as well.  

[iacas]

Tiger is 5'10" and they list him as 6' or even taller.

Ernie is tall, though.

[The Flush]

I thought Landon Donavon looked tiny in that charity event yesterday, but he was still a world class athlete.