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ChetlovesMer

Can We Stop with the Distance Debate?

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STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

If I have to hear one more golf commentator complain about how far these guys hit the golf ball I'm going to lose my mind!
According to the data below the average tournament winner has improved by 5 strokes since 1960. 

pga-tour-average-decade.jpg.476d11025dfd997ec3b9f38634192886.jpg

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

If you want to get those 5 strokes back, make the rough rougher. Or make the fairway rougher. In the 60's the rolled the greens before every tournament. I watched a thing about them getting Winged Foot ready for the US Open, they rolled the greens more than a dozen times. They rolled the FAIRWAYS more than half a dozen! 

I don't want two sets of equipment! 

I don't want two sets of rules!

I don't care that guys hit it far. I actually think its pretty cool. 

If you want to get those 5 strokes back (and I don't even care if you do) there are plenty of ways to make the game tougher for the pros. You don't have to take the air out of the ball! (No offense to Tom Brady.)

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

Nobody in pro football bitches that the average offensive lineman weighed 251 pounds in 1960 and weighs 313 pounds today. Nobody in tennis complains that the average serve speed went from under 100 mph in 1960 to almost 120 mph today. You never hear track and field people lament "Remember the good old days when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes." 

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

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21 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

If I have to hear one more golf commentator complain about how far these guys hit the golf ball I'm going to lose my mind!

I suggest earplugs or the mute button, because they're not going to stop.

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3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I suggest earplugs or the mute button, because they're not going to stop.

I hate the fact that you are probably right.

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8 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I hate the fact that you are probably right.

Funny, his wife says the same thing.

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You aren't thinking long term.  Those 5 measly shots will (at the current rate of expansion) balloon to 50 shots in only 600 years.  Imagine having to card a dozen holes-in-one just to make the cut.

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2 minutes ago, Piz said:

You aren't thinking long term.  Those 5 measly shots will (at the current rate of expansion) balloon to 50 shots in only 600 years.  Imagine having to card a dozen holes-in-one just to make the cut.

Wow, I guess I never thought of it that way. I sure about that math? I struggle with math after all I have a Chicago Public School Education. 

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You also need to consider that courses have been lengthened over the years and if that had not happened then the change in strokes would likely be more than 5 strokes lower.

FYI, I am also tired of the constant noise.  Those long-ballers on the tour are not on my league and I do not need to compete against them.  Enjoy the game the way you want, it does not matter to me if you Bomb-It or not.

 

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I feel something important would be lost with bifurcation.  The beauty of golf is that we can play the same ball the touring pros play... even though, in some cases, we shouldn't.  With bifurcation we would NOT want to play the ball the tour pros play.  Too weird.

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14 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I feel something important would be lost with bifurcation.  The beauty of golf is that we can play the same ball the touring pros play... even though, in some cases, we shouldn't.  With bifurcation we would NOT want to play the ball the tour pros play.  Too weird.

I agree. Plus, I DON'T have an issue with how far they hit it. I've said it a million times. Why pull back the distance, it seems so much more exciting to just penalize the misses more.

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1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I agree. Plus, I DON'T have an issue with how far they hit it. I've said it a million times. Why pull back the distance, it seems so much more exciting to just penalize the misses more.

I have no issue with how far tour pros hit it.  Not to mention the long drive guys and gals.  Also no need to lengthen the courses.  We just need to accept that scores will go down.  Accept change.  It's a different game today (Jack may be a bit envious).  So are all the other major pro sports.

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Couldn't bifurcation hurt the pros?  They get the sponsorships because manufacturers can sell the equipment they us to the masses.  If their equipment is intentionally "Lesser" then there is little incentive for us to buy the club used by the player.  I can see the add now  "Buy our new Super-Duper Driver, it is nothing like the crap "insert name" uses.

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1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Nobody in pro football bitches that the average offensive lineman weighed 251 pounds in 1960 and weighs 313 pounds today. Nobody in tennis complains that the average serve speed went from under 100 mph in 1960 to almost 120 mph today. You never hear track and field people lament "Remember the good old days when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes."

I'm on the fence about your general point for reasons related to why I think two of these are bad comparisons. All players have gotten bigger and faster in football. It's not just offense or defense. And they have in fact changed the rules both just to generally increase scoring but also to deal with the consequences of players being way bigger and faster and stronger.

Track is just obviously a bad comparison. Nothing changes about the sport when people run faster. They just finish the race faster.

I think tennis is the best comparison. People don't complain in tennis because while the sport has changed, it hasn't gotten to the point that humans just aren't capable of reacting quickly enough (like 200mph serves or whatever). Then surely you'd hear arguments that we need to deaden the racquets or expand the court or something.

I think you can argue that's where we are with golf. The game has changed a lot in the past 30 years since plastic balls. For a while simply adding longer tees kept the vision of course architects intact, and players were still asked to make choices as envisioned by architects and display a range of skills. I think you can at least argue that the pros have gone past that point in the past 10-15 years. To keep the risks of a hole off the tee as designed by an architect you'd have to move the tees back to 8500 yards. But even then, a risk/reward choice that was designed for an era when the choice off the tee determined whether you had a 5i approach or a 9i approach is now a choice between a GW and 9i.

I've enjoyed watching Bryson this season, and I'm not convinced that his taking the risk of trying to carry it 350 to drive a par 4 green is necessarily a worse game, or less entertaining, than past versions of the game. But I think the skills required and the types of strategic decisions a player has to make have definitely changed, and it can be argued they've changed for the worse, and it might be better to have pros play 6800 yard courses with a different ball.

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Yeah, I think one of the things that bothers me the most is that within the complaining, so may people seem to ignore the fact that being able to drive the ball like Bryson, Rory, DJ, etc do is incredibly difficult and skillful -- otherwise, everyone would do it.

Yes, the advances in driver and golf ball technology have made hitting driver much more forgiving than it used to be, so there is less risk in whaling away with driver 14 times per round, but the margin for error at 170+ mph ball speed and 300+ yards of carry is considerably smaller when you think about how far offline a similar poor swing will go relative to their slower/shorter counterparts.

People seem to be upset because bombing driver seems boring, or it isn't how golf "should be played," or because this specific skill has become so valuable compared to others, but it truly is a skill and that seems to often be overlooked, especially by old, former player talking heads.

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5 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

If I have to hear one more golf commentator complain about how far these guys hit the golf ball I'm going to lose my mind!
According to the data below the average tournament winner has improved by 5 strokes since 1960. 

pga-tour-average-decade.jpg.476d11025dfd997ec3b9f38634192886.jpg

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

If you want to get those 5 strokes back, make the rough rougher. Or make the fairway rougher. In the 60's the rolled the greens before every tournament. I watched a thing about them getting Winged Foot ready for the US Open, they rolled the greens more than a dozen times. They rolled the FAIRWAYS more than half a dozen! 

I don't want two sets of equipment! 

I don't want two sets of rules!

I don't care that guys hit it far. I actually think its pretty cool. 

If you want to get those 5 strokes back (and I don't even care if you do) there are plenty of ways to make the game tougher for the pros. You don't have to take the air out of the ball! (No offense to Tom Brady.)

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

Nobody in pro football bitches that the average offensive lineman weighed 251 pounds in 1960 and weighs 313 pounds today. Nobody in tennis complains that the average serve speed went from under 100 mph in 1960 to almost 120 mph today. You never hear track and field people lament "Remember the good old days when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes." 

STOP BITCHING about how far guys hit the ball! 

I've come to realize that I pretty much dislike announcers for every sport except the Mets announcers because they're awesome.  

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1 minute ago, RFKFREAK said:

I've come to realize that I pretty much dislike announcers for every sport except the Mets announcers because they're awesome.  

I started watching football without the sound like 10 years ago. I actually prefer it that way. You miss nothing. 

I have found that listening to football on the radio without the sound is very difficult, however. 

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I'm a big fan of the mute button for golf and football. Sometimes the announcers can get soooo stupid. Last Sunday's Seahawks game was a case in point.

As for distance, if there's a problem with length off the tee and scores being too low (and I'm not one who thinks there is) then my solution would be to eliminate the caddies and make the players carry their own clubs, figure out their own landing spots/distances, and line up their own putts without assistance. I'm quite sure that scores would go up.

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