Relative Importance of Driving/Approach Shots, Short Game, Putting, etc. (LSW, Mark Broadie, Strokes Gained, etc.)

[DrvFrShow]

Interesting article about scoring accuracy off the tee. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/mental-game/sanders_gd0809

It sets points for where you land. First cut doesn't cost you anything. 2nd cut does, behind a tree is a killer (no shot), in hazards or where you have to take a penalty stroke is a killer, OB and of course lost ball is the worst.

[boogielicious]

Interesting article about scoring accuracy off the tee. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/mental-game/sanders_gd0809

It sets points for where you land. First cut doesn't cost you anything. 2nd cut does, behind a tree is a killer (no shot), in hazards or where you have to take a penalty stroke is a killer, OB and of course lost ball is the worst.

Thanks for posting.  It would be a good thing to add to my scorecard marking.

[RFKFREAK]

Interesting article about scoring accuracy off the tee. http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/mental-game/sanders_gd0809

It sets points for where you land. First cut doesn't cost you anything. 2nd cut does, behind a tree is a killer (no shot), in hazards or where you have to take a penalty stroke is a killer, OB and of course lost ball is the worst.

Thanks for posting.  It would be a good thing to add to my scorecard marking.

Yeah, I like this.  I'm going to make a note to try and keep this stat next year.

[mvmac]

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Also, @iacas and @david_wedzik on stage with Mark Broadie during the PGA Show

[Lihu]

Thanks for posting. It is interesting that no one argued for short game. Not surprising, just interesting.

[natureboy]

Also, @iacas and @david_wedzik on stage with Mark Broadie during the PGA Show

Very good explanations by Dave.

[mvmac]

[iacas]

 

[chilepepper]

well, they all count as a stroke but, I'll putt my tee shot up there as pretty important. It sets the tone for the rest of the hole. If I'm in the fairway odds are I'm in good shape. If I'm right or left and in the stuff I'm faced with all manner of possible problems. 

[9wood]

On 7/22/2008 at 3:18 PM, pjsnyc said:

Hey guys and gals - stumbled across this interesting article about this guy who teaches grad courses at Columbia University (Mark Broadie) that did a study and determined that the long game is more important than the short game (esp. for the regular Joe).
 

Well the long game is important if you plan on getting on the green in two on par fours and in three on par fives.

[dave s]

For me to play (and score) well, two things need to happen: 1) put ball in play off the tee; 2) play solidly from 100 yards and in.

What absolutely KILLS my game is getting in trouble off the tee, having to hit recovery shots that are way more difficult than I'd like.  Here's a couple of recent examples:

Last week in a league golf round, I drove the ball 5 feet off the fairway into 2" deep rough that is very thick and dense.  Played a 5-hybrid and rolled it straight down the rough about 100 yards.  Third shot was hooked badly into trees left.  Found ball, chopped it out; next shot short of the green, (of course being left, I short-sided myself and hit a flop-shot that was 3 yards short of perfect); chipped on and 3-putted to a really treacherous pin placement.  Any way you count that one up equals a quad-bogey NINE!

Just this past Sunday, I thinned a tee ball that didn't make it over a ravine that stretched only about 150.  Splat--right on the upslope of the ravine.  Next shot I dropped just short of the ravine, pulled it left on the dog-leg LEFT hole with no shot to the green.  Chipped over the strategically place bunker complex right in the middle of the fairway, put next shot on and two-putted for a cool TRIPLE.

Whoever coined the 'drive for show, putt for dough' missed the boat.  Your drive sets up the hole and pretty much dictates your ability to make birdie, par or at worst, a bogey.  Sure other things can and DO happen sometimes, but if you don't get off the tee in good position it severely limits your options.

dave

[Zekez]

I think that hitting the ball well off of the tee is paramount to scoring well.  When i keep my tee shots in play (and i do not hit the ball long at all) and putt pretty bad, I still am within range of my handicap.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Zekez

[xcott]

I think of it more as getting off the Tee well  rather than just distance, so there are a few options

Short and really bad (snap hook)

Short and kind of bad (rough but not long)

Short and good (old man drive)

Long and really bad (slice to ob, or deep woods)

Long and kind of bad (rough)

Long and good (fairway drive)

But then there are the pros which are

Super long and good 

 

As a high handicapper, how I hit off the tee has a tremendous difference on my game. If I can hit long and kind of bad then I can play well. However it's often long and really bad or short and bad or short and kind of bad.

If I could start out every hole super long and good, it would help me a lot more than if I could get myself to within 50 yds and let a pro take over. It's such a big jump from where the avg golfer is.

[newtogolf]

Golf Digest seems committed to promoting accuracy over distance.  In their latest issue, Luke Donald talks about his swing and problems he's had chasing distance.

Quote

Like many of you, the thought of hitting shots 20 or 30 yards farther led me to make changes to my swing that turned out to be more trouble than they were worth. I gained some distance, yes, but I lost a lot of accuracy, and my scoring suffered. I've since gone back to the way I swung the club in 2011, when I was No. 1 in the World Ranking. Now I feel like my ball-striking is pretty close to the way it used to be. The things I'm working on now with my coach, Pat Goss, are fundamentals I'm sure can help you, too. It starts at address. Feel like you're bending forward from your hip joints but staying tall with your chest (above). Resist the urge to tilt too far forward or sit back in your heels—I see both mistakes. Improve this part of your swing, and the other ones I'm about to show you, and you'll put yourself in position to play your best golf. 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/find-your-focus-accuracy-vs-distance

 

[Dave2512]

I can't read Golf Digest or any of them anymore just can't. But they aren't alone. Hear lots of goofy stuff on Golf Channel too and obviously from the tour players.

[newtogolf]

24 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I can't read Golf Digest or any of them anymore just can't. But they aren't alone. Hear lots of goofy stuff on Golf Channel too and obviously from the tour players.

In the last few issues they have featured articles that emphasized accuracy over distance.  I don't understand how a golf magazine can be so out of touch with the research.  

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

In the last few issues they have featured articles that emphasized accuracy over distance.  I don't understand how a golf magazine can be so out of touch with the research.  

The research says you have to chase them both. One is a bit more important than the other. For Donald, the particular changes had such an impact on his scoring that they weren't helpful, but he's still longer than the average scratch player plus more accurate and consistent.

[DaveP043]

On 5/21/2016 at 1:51 PM, newtogolf said:

Golf Digest seems committed to promoting accuracy over distance.  In their latest issue, Luke Donald talks about his swing and problems he's had chasing distance.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/find-your-focus-accuracy-vs-distance

I'm not sure his particular experience isn't consistent with the statistical analyses.  He probably had less to gain by hitting it a bit longer, with the potential to lose more when he became less accurate.  From a strokes gained perspective (and I'm certainly no expert) it seems like he may gain a tenth or even less when he hits a drive 20 yards longer.  If the changes he's made to gain that distance mean that he's erratic enough to be in the trees or other severe trouble a couple times a round, and he loses a half or even a full stroke each time, he may be worse off.  

For most of us amateurs, the way to increased distance is through improved mechanics, and generally improved mechanics mean improved accuracy as well.  We win both ways when it works out that way.