PGA Tour Players Anonymous Poll

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by Blitz28179

You know from somebody that watches the PGA tour week in and week out I dont really agree with that poll.How can someone cheat with all the cameras everywhere?Plus you risk getting a bad reputation and possible ejection from the PGA tour.From what I seen all these tour guys seem to be honest.Ive never seen anybody cheating(I seen bill hass mark his ball on the fringe and was like "thats a penalty stroke" but forgot they are playing lift and place)When they do make a mistake they are always caught anyway and added punishment(see tiger woods augusta this yr with turning in a wrong scorecard).

Sounds more like we have some sore losers on the PGA tour(see sergio garcia)

One thing that you need to keep in mind is that there are cameras everywhere like you said, but they are not always focused in on every single player competing in an event. There's always a marquee group and every single shot is not necessarily always under scrutiny or a magnifying glass. #300 Joe Schmo may be able to ground his club in a bunker without anyone seeing, or nudge his marker forward before ball placement, or something else without the world jumping on him because it's not broadcast on your TV. Instead, you're repeatedly watching the top 25 players in the world with a misc. outsider paired in from time to time.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Shorty's point, though, is that it is an anonymous poll.  What incentive would any tour player have to lie in an anonymous poll?  It's the whole point about it being anonymous.  If a PGA tour player is asked on the record if he's witnessed cheating, then, sure, you can take any answer with a grain of salt because they probably don't want to be involved in any controversy.

But there really is no reason not to take the results of an anonymous poll at face value.

In today's world, there is usually an electronic way to track things, so anonymous may not really be anonymous...also there may be some Tour players who think certain answers make the tour look bad even if they are anonymous.

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by Shorty

When I have called them out on this it becomes very uncomfortable for the rest of the round.

I just don't see that "uncomfortable" thing happening )

[billchao]

Originally Posted by MEfree

In today's world, there is usually an electronic way to track things, so anonymous may not really be anonymous...also there may be some Tour players who think certain answers make the tour look bad even if they are anonymous.

Good point, though there may be legal ramifications to revealing the identities of said poll takers.

Your second point illustrates one of the flaws of polling. But if you follow that logic, then the conclusion is that more than 38% of people have witnessed cheating on tour, which may indicate that cheating is more common than the poll shows.

[jamo]

Shorty's point, though, is that it is an [U]anonymous[/U] poll.  What incentive would any tour player have to lie in an anonymous poll?  It's the whole point about it being anonymous.  If a PGA tour player is asked on the record if he's witnessed cheating, then, sure, you can take any answer with a grain of salt because they probably don't want to be involved in any controversy. But there really is no reason not to take the results of an anonymous poll at face value.

That's a pretty common occurrence with polling. People know the right answer, but admitting it to yourself isn't always trivial.

[TourSpoon]

Correct, talking generically off the record without naming names gives you a pretty good idea that it is happening. I am sure it is subtle and not often occurring, but it happens.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by billchao

Your second point illustrates one of the flaws of polling. But if you follow that logic, then the conclusion is that more than 38% of people have witnessed cheating on tour, which may indicate that cheating is more common than the poll shows.

I think it could be more common than what the poll indicates.  Why not when you consider-

1.  The majority of golfers cheat.

2.  The majority of professional athletes don't call penalties on themselves and will bend rules as far as the refs allow.

3.  Many of today's golfers grew up playing these other sports.

4.  The poll only asked if they have EVER seen another player cheat, not if the commonly saw other players cheat.

[bplewis24]

This is great information.  Some of the answers don't make any sense to me ("most young players coming on tour are not overcoached...that's why they're on tour"...yeah, I'm sure that's the reason), and others reveal ultimate ignorance and just how many pieces of sh** exist on Tour proportionate to us everyday working folk (about the same), but the only one that has me intrigued is the one about the cheater that everybody knows, and the "same two guys" who apparently cheat all the time.

I'd pay a small amount of money to know who those two guys are, and how they're cheating.  Makes me wonder if it's something that's in a very grey area (like testing the sand in the bunker with your feet) that I already do, or something more duplicitous?

[Blitz28179]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

This is great information.  Some of the answers don't make any sense to me ("most young players coming on tour are not overcoached...that's why they're on tour"...yeah, I'm sure that's the reason), and others reveal ultimate ignorance and just how many pieces of sh** exist on Tour proportionate to us everyday working folk (about the same), but the only one that has me intrigued is the one about the cheater that everybody knows, and the "same two guys" who apparently cheat all the time.

I'd pay a small amount of money to know who those two guys are, and how they're cheating.  Makes me wonder if it's something that's in a very grey area (like testing the sand in the bunker with your feet) that I already do, or something more duplicitous?

If 38 % are talking about tour players breaking that stupid rule("Loose impedeiment"?) then this poll actually sounds right.

I would imagine that over half of them do this sometime and have no idea they did it but other players do.Thats what makes it a stupid rule and hopes to see it dropped or changed in the future.

[Hardspoon]

2016 version:

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/si-anonymous-poll-revealed-pga-champions-and-lpga-pros-answer-all

My favorite is "Who would you want to have your back in a bar fight?"

Personally, I don't care if he's 50 years old...how could you NOT go with John Daly?!?  My only concern would be that he'd kill someone. 

 

 

[Patch]

I have seen a few players when addressing the ball in the rough watch their ball move. Then hit the ball with out replacing it. I have seen this at the LVI a couple of times. I don't remember the players names. 

I remember reading some where when a player didn't correct an infraction, a spectator saw it and mentioned it to the player's caddy. The caddy allegedly said it was no big deal. That all the players did it. 

It would really be tough for me to believe that there is a sport where 100% of the players play strictly by the rules. I would imagine there are posters on here that have knowingly stretched the rules a few times. It's human nature. 

[Papa Steve 55]

I think some people might call using the rules to your advantage cheating. There is this whole 'spirt of rule' thing.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

I think some people might call using the rules to your advantage cheating. There is this whole 'spirt of rule' thing.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

My ball is in a bad lie. My foot is on a cart path with a normal stance. Bam! The Rules permit me to drop the ball away from the obstruction, and in doing so, I get a great lie.

Nobody would think for a second that guy was a "cheater."

The Rules of Golf can actually be used to your advantage quite often.

[saevel25]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nobody would think for a second that guy was a "cheater."

The Rules of Golf can actually be used to your advantage quite often.

I agree for the most party. There is one particular situation I do not like.

The rule that a player is allowed to deem any ball unplayable is a bit of a stretch for me.

Quote

The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

I get it's tough to say what is or is not unplayable.

You can end up with a situation where a person would rather take the stroke and distance penalty versus playing the ball where it lies even if it is playable.

There is this course I have played that runs there greens hard and fast in the summer. This one hole has a three tiered green, with a false front, and a steep drop off that runs about 60-100 yards away from the green. 

Let's say a person putts it off the green and it rolls 60 yards down the hill. He could deem the ball unplayable and hit his putt again with a stroke penalty. Lets say his first putt was 15 feet above the hole. What are the odds he get's his 60 yard pitch inside of 15 feet? Should he be allowed to declare a ball, that is in the fairway, unplayable?

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Let's say a person putts it off the green and it rolls 60 yards down the hill. He could deem the ball unplayable and hit his putt again with a stroke penalty. Lets say his first putt was 15 feet above the hole. What are the odds he get's his 60 yard pitch inside of 15 feet? Should he be allowed to declare a ball, that is in the fairway, unplayable?

Yes.

You're probably getting hung up on the word "unplayable." That's simply what it's called. Don't take the dictionary definition.

Consider that, at any point in time, a player under penalty (in this case of effectively two strokes), can choose to re-play their previous shot.

[Papa Steve 55]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

That doesn't make any sense at all.

My ball is in a bad lie. My foot is on a cart path with a normal stance. Bam! The Rules permit me to drop the ball away from the obstruction, and in doing so, I get a great lie.

Nobody would think for a second that guy was a "cheater."

The Rules of Golf can actually be used to your advantage quite often.

True in that situation, but your ball is against a tree, you say you want to hit it lefty, which puts your foot on the path, you take your drop and return to a righty stance. I would guess a lot of people would have called that bending the rules at least, or outright cheating.

The mundane we get, but I think if you get a group to move a boulder for you, most would call it cheating. That's not my belief, but many people think rules follow common sense, and if they don't follow the logic it must be cheating. 

[newtogolf]

15 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

True in that situation, but your ball is against a tree, you say you want to hit it lefty, which puts your foot on the path, you take your drop and return to a righty stance. I would guess a lot of people would have called that bending the rules at least, or outright cheating.

The mundane we get, but I think if you get a group to move a boulder for you, most would call it cheating. That's not my belief, but many people think rules follow common sense, and if they don't follow the logic it must be cheating. 

There's a difference between using the rules to your advantage and cheating.  The position of the ball in relation to the trunk of the tree would determine if using a lefty stance is required.  If in taking the only available stance as a lefty your foot rests on the cart path then you are allowed to take a drop.   That's different than just switching stances arbitrarily based on which stance provides you the best relief.     

[Gunther]

Really not too much compelling about this year's anonymous poll.  Kinda glad there wasn't a real negative question like who's overrated, who do you hate, etc.  

The political questions were interesting but not real surprising.  After all, golfers are among the most cerebral of athletes, are they not?