Is cost the reason for decline in new golfers?

[David in FL]

  Jeremie Boop said:

Fixed it for you

You keep forgetting, or chose not to care, that those cheap prices aren't everywhere. Regardless, this back and forth is pointless. You and I won't be on the same page because we don't have the same experiences when it comes to the cost of a round of golf.

On a side note, thank's for letting me know how nice it must be to live down there with so many courses to play at such good prices, some day I'll retire and move there.

But, with very few exceptions, they ARE.  Tell me where you live, and I'll find them in your area too.  People just don't look......

[Jeremie Boop]

  David in FL said:

But, with very few exceptions, they ARE.  Tell me where you live, and I'll find them in your area too.  People just don't look......

Again, I regularly search sites for cheap prices for rounds in my area. You looking isn't going to help. The closest place I've found a round under $15 was 45 minutes away and during work hours.

Last post from me here.

[David in FL]

  Jeremie Boop said:

Again, I regularly search sites for cheap prices for rounds in my area. You looking isn't going to help. The closest place I've found a round under $15 was 45 minutes away and during work hours.

Last post from me here.

For the vast majority of the population, cheap golf is available, even in the evenings and on the weekends.  Not just in Florida.  Almost everywhere.  Shame on us if we allow potential new golfers to think that it's not, and perpetuate this myth that golf need be expensive.

......and I'll still bet you a soda that I can find cheap golf (under $15, evening/weekend) near you.

[Slice of Life]

  David in FL said:

For the vast majority of the population, cheap golf is available, even in the evenings and on the weekends.  Not just in Florida.  Almost everywhere.  Shame on us if we allow potential new golfers to think that it's not, and perpetuate this myth that golf need be expensive.

Depends on your definition of cheap. I went yesterday around 4, and played 18 and a cart for $26 at my home course. To me, that's cheap. But if you want to play 3 times a week, $312 a month is a lot for golf for some people.

Cost is still a factor...you can grab a bat and ball and play baseball for free...you can grab tennis rackets and a ball and play for free...you can grab a football or basketball and play for free. Golf is one of the only major recreational sports that costs money.

[mcanadiens]

One thing I can say to @Jeremie Boop 's point is that the Golfnow thing is chock full of cheap times for Dayton area courses, but the area north has nothing at all.

I know next to nothing about the courses in that area, but I noticed that several of the course web sites have links to the others. It sort of suggests either a lot of common ownership or some kind of understanding between the respective owners.

[David in FL]

  Slice of Life said:

Depends on your definition of cheap. I went yesterday around 4, and played 18 and a cart for $26 at my home course. To me, that's cheap. But if you want to play 3 times a week, $312 a month is a lot for golf for some people.

Cost is still a factor...you can grab a bat and ball and play baseball for free...you can grab tennis rackets and a ball and play for free...you can grab a football or basketball and play for free. Golf is one of the only major recreational sports that costs money.

No argument.....it's not free to play golf.  But I bristle when people claim that it's so expensive that it keeps a significant percentage of new players away.....and that's what this thread is about.  The vast majority of people can play the game of golf.....all in, green fees, cart or walk, balls, heck, even a beverage if they like, for less than a $20 bill.  Not free, but as I said, less than the cost of a trip through the McDonalds drive through with your significant other.

Remember.....we're talking about what's keeping new players from taking up the game too.  New golfers don't generally play 3 times a week.  As a general rule, the average new golfer probably won't play twice a month.  The problem remains...... we golfers need to educate people as to the relative affordability of golf.  If they're genuinely price sensitive, their first introduction to the game should NOT be at a higher-end, $60 course.  Take 'em to the local muni and play 9 holes for $5......and yeah I know, there may be a few places where that's not an option.....but very few.

[neophytea]

How many of us are young, married, with children and struggling to make $36,000 a year.  Most of the people in that group are taking care of important things first.

How many of us could pay our bills if we only brought home $2000 a month and still go golfing?

Try to take your wife and child to a Disney movie, MacDonald's, and an ice cream cone.  Bet you it costs them a days take home.

Creation of jobs that are not "living wage jobs" do not permit anyone to do much of anything.

[skydog]

I agree that it's a combination of time, cost, and difficuly. Many folks may have the money, and not the time (or vise versa), or they may have the time and money but the game is 'too hard' for them to enjoy it.

Everything else in our economy is getting more expensive (food, gas, healthcare, housing, etc) and most careers are requiring longer hours-this doesn't translate into a bunch of people playing a relatively expensive and time consuming game. My other passion/hobby is hunting- which can have similar time/cost characteristics as golf and it is seeing a similar decline in participation as golf.

[turtleback]

  David in FL said:

No argument.....it's not free to play golf.  But I bristle when people claim that it's so expensive that it keeps a significant percentage of new players away.....and that's what this thread is about.  The vast majority of people can play the game of golf.....all in, green fees, cart or walk, balls, heck, even a beverage if they like, for less than a $20 bill.  Not free, but as I said, less than the cost of a trip through the McDonalds drive through with your significant other.

Remember.....we're talking about what's keeping new players from taking up the game too.  New golfers don't generally play 3 times a week.  As a general rule, the average new golfer probably won't play twice a month.  The problem remains...... we golfers need to educate people as to the relative affordability of golf.  If they're genuinely price sensitive, their first introduction to the game should NOT be at a higher-end, $60 course.  Take 'em to the local muni and play 9 holes for $5......and yeah I know, there may be a few places where that's not an option.....but very few.

This is OT but I know you are the man when it comes to golfnow expertise.  I have tried and tried but I cannot find ANYTHING in my area on that site.  They do not even have my area listed, as apparently CO is so small it only has 5 golfnow regions.  I'm in Northern CO and I would consider Denver too far away to drive to to play a budget round. I am in the Ft. Collins/Loveland.Greeley area (80634 zipcode if it helps) .

If you get a spare moment could you take a look and let me know if there really isn't anything in my area or tell me what I am doing wrong in not being able to find what there is.

Thanks,

[skydog]

  David in FL said:

No argument.....it's not free to play golf.  But I bristle when people claim that it's so expensive that it keeps a significant percentage of new players away.....and that's what this thread is about.  The vast majority of people can play the game of golf.....all in, green fees, cart or walk, balls, heck, even a beverage if they like, for less than a $20 bill.  Not free, but as I said, less than the cost of a trip through the McDonalds drive through with your significant other.

Remember.....we're talking about what's keeping new players from taking up the game too.  New golfers don't generally play 3 times a week.  As a general rule, the average new golfer probably won't play twice a month.  The problem remains...... we golfers need to educate people as to the relative affordability of golf.  If they're genuinely price sensitive, their first introduction to the game should NOT be at a higher-end, $60 course.  Take 'em to the local muni and play 9 holes for $5......and yeah I know, there may be a few places where that's not an option.....but very few.

Unfortunately I think you extrapolate the Florida golfing environment a bit too much here to the rest of the country. At no point in my life has a $5 or even $10 round of nine ever been an option within a 2 hour radius of my house. If I spend $20-$30 for a weekday twilight round, I'm playing an absolute dog track. I have to spend $40-$50 during the week to play a decent course and $80+ on the weekends (I don't play on the weekends). The other option is to pay $400-$800/month, plus initiation costs for a private club. And I know this pales in comparison to many areas in the Northeast (where a third of the country's population lives). From a cost standpoint, I know most of the county lies somewhere between cental FL and Connecticut, but don't make the mistake of thinking that most people get to play golf for $20/round or less.

[Flav]

A lot of the money issue is priorities and the perception golf is expensive to start. New golfers need , like it's been stated a few times, us established golfers to show its not. There is no excuse that a beginner should have the perception they cannot play twice a month at a par3 or executive or muni course for under 40 dollars. No reason they should feel that they can not play with clubs that cost 100 or less for a set. The initial cost may be higher than baseball or basketball but it's up to the golfers to show it can be cheap. By the way have you seen the 200 dollar baseball bats or 100 dollar gloves lately they sell for kids? Did a little research on the way to pick up lunch. A driver, hybrid , 6iron, pw, sw and putter plus bag at playitagain sports was from 50-100 dollars and they had balls 4 for 1.00. The local par3 with holes 100 -160 yards was 7 dollars for 9 while walking. If someone wants to learn to golf , leaves the game while saying it's expensive all while paying hundreds for cell phones etc it just goes to show they were never going to be a long term player anyway.

[baw1]

I think the popularity of any sport or activity is a result of our culture and what we are exposed to. Perhaps now that Tiger is at the tail end of his career and considering that ESPN (the main Sports channel) only covers golf if Tiger is involved (mostly), popularity is on the decline?

Regardless though, I think the difficulty of the game (more so than other sports) will always limit its growth potential. It’s a game of skill that requires training, practice and ample play just to get somewhat decent at. Obtaining a low handicap or shooting par is a whole other category of course.

[newtogolf]

  Slice of Life said:

Cost is still a factor...you can grab a bat and ball and play baseball for free...you can grab tennis rackets and a ball and play for free...you can grab a football or basketball and play for free. Golf is one of the only major recreational sports that costs money.

You can't play tennis in many locations for free.  At least in NY, you can't play on a football or baseball field unless you as associated with a league that you pay to join(insurance reasons).  Racquetball, bowling, fishing, ice skating, target shooting, not free either.

You can set up a net in your backyard and hit all the range balls you want for free, you can find a wide open field that no one is on and hit golf balls there too.

Hobbies and recreational sports are what you make out of them and can be contorted to fit a budget.  It's all a matter of how hard you want to try.

[Golfingdad]

  newtogolf said:

You can't play tennis in many locations for free.  At least in NY, you can't play on a football or baseball field unless you as associated with a league that you pay to join(insurance reasons).  Racquetball, bowling, fishing, ice skating, target shooting, not free either.

You can set up a net in your backyard and hit all the range balls you want for free, you can find a wide open field that no one is on and hit golf balls there too.

Hobbies and recreational sports are what you make out of them and can be contorted to fit a budget.  It's all a matter of how hard you want to try.

You can't play football or baseball on that same wide open field??

I've flat out asked a couple of my co-workers why they don't play golf.  These are guys who have played a few times, and even own clubs, but if it's not for my birthday or a work function, then it's once a year at most for them.  It's not really money, it's not really time, and it's not really lack of interest.  It's a combination of all three.  They aren't interested enough to take the time or spend the money to play golf more often than they do.

I think that there are very, very few people out there who don't golf solely because of money.  I think there are a lot, though, that don't golf solely because of time (parents of newborns, for example) and I think there are a lot of people who don't golf solely because of lack of interest.

[Slice of Life]

  newtogolf said:

You can't play tennis in many locations for free.  At least in NY, you can't play on a football or baseball field unless you as associated with a league that you pay to join(insurance reasons).  Racquetball, bowling, fishing, ice skating, target shooting, not free either.

You can set up a net in your backyard and hit all the range balls you want for free, you can find a wide open field that no one is on and hit golf balls there too.

Hobbies and recreational sports are what you make out of them and can be contorted to fit a budget.  It's all a matter of how hard you want to try.

That's not playing golf, it's hitting golf balls. Equivalent to playing catch in your backyard...it isn't playing baseball or football.

You can play football in an open field, and it's still football. Aside from a fishing license, fishing doesn't cost anything if you have the equipment. Tennis is free...there's always a location within 20 miles of you where you can play for free...high schools, etc., Ice skating is free in the winter with frozen ponds, and target shooting is hardly a major recreational sport.

Your closest comparison is bowling. And you can bowl for <$10 without ever spending a dime on bowling equipment. Or let's say you join a weekly league in the summer for baseball...$30-50 a person. Now compare it to a weekly golf league...$20 a week.

Say what you want, golf is expensive. Not gonna stop me, but it's one of the more expensive sports.

[CarlSpackler]

The topic of this thread seems to keep coming up. It's a multifaceted problem that I don't think can be boiled down to just cost, or just time, etc. One of our favorite bar/restaurants just closed down. You know things are bad in the world if a bar can't survive.

[Flav]

Here is an interesting view from someones comment on the article that made me post this question. "Golf's biggest challenge is over coming a culture and society that values teams sports. Most parents have no problem shelling out almost a grand for a hockey season or hundreds for a travel team in baseball or even a couple hundred for a little league season as its seen as a chance for their kids to make friends. Golf on the other hand is seen as a solo sport where your not going to have a lot of social interaction or learn team work. A lot of young adults see all the negative such as slow play and never see the positive." I can see some of this applying to adults as well. The younger crowd is more into the social aspects of things and fail to see the friendships that can be made on the course. Add in a lot of business deals are no longer done on the course so to speak it's easy to see why the decline is happening.

[David in FL]

Only a little OT because it ties into the whole cost thing.....

GN doesn't do a real good job of identifying exactly where courses actually are when they assign them to a region.  I did a quick Google search for courses in that area and came up with a bunch of them.  Looks like most are in the Longmont area......about 30 minutes south of Loveland.

Then cross-reference the courses you find with the listings on GN for the Denver area.  I didn't spend much time, but found Twin Peaks, Ute Creek, Coyote Creek, and Sunset Municipal.  I'm sure there are more.   All seem pretty reasonably priced with some Hot Deals at Coyote Creek for $15 and Sunset for $10.

Perfect example......you're definitely out there, but there are courses, and decent deals to be had.  Certainly not as many as other, more populated areas though.

Damn pretty part of the Country though!