"Correct" pace of play

[David in FL]

I think it's only contentious because there are people here who assume that we all play under the same parameters.  People who play at the same course all the time and know every tee shot before they get there, and have greens and tees that are close to each other should get around in under 4 hours.  And quite easily, walking or riding.  On the other hand, a foursome of guys playing a course they've never (or rarely) played before, with drives between greens and tees, and several other golfer out on the course, and a cart girl who comes through and stops each group for a minute to sell stuff, well, that's going to take longer.

I only judge the speed of my rounds by where I am in relation to the group in front of me.  And, lately, around here, 4:15 is pretty common and pleasant.

Another reason for the possible tension on these threads is that we also like to get a little hyperbolic at times ...

Seriously??  The difference between "norm" and "death slog" is FIVE minutes???  Come on, man.

Alright, I'll give you 4:20. But I'm looking to cut my throat with a wedge if it's any longer than that!

[Dave2512]

Depends on the course but IMO a par 71/72 course in the 6500-7000 yard range should play at 8 to 16 minutes per hole. With less time for par 3's and more for par 5's it usually works out to about 3:50.

[isukgolf]

I play with a group of seniors on Saturday ... and this is a retirement community ... and some of the golfer are 70'ish ... most are certainly late 60's ... and the ladies that usually tee of before us ... probably drive the ball a good 175 yards ... play in under 4 hours ... With that said I am all for a good place of play and for me that means I do not wait for the group in front of me ... but I hate the concept that I am obligated by some unspoken rule that I must keep with the group in front, just to make someone else happy ... I will play a round in less that 4 hrs I can guarantee that ...

[colin007]

every time i play that takes 4 hours, there is a lot of waiting and it sucks.  3:30 should be the "normal" pace of play.

[Dave2512]

3:30 can be tough to do on a full course as a foursome. Some par 4's would have to be played in the 10 minute range to get there and that can be tough. Everyone has to avoid trouble and the green would have to be clear to play second shots upon arriving at the balls.

Edit. I just looked at a few cards I have with HBH POP. Not one par 4 is sub 12 minutes. One is a private course that plays fast compared to a public course with a POP of 3:52.

[mvmac]

Not at all.  Speed has very little to do with how many times you his the ball.  It has everything to do with how you manage your time during the round, and some better golfers are among the worst at managing their pace of play!

Yes, I've played with some good players that play pretty slow.

I think some higher handicappers can take longer because they haven't learned how to play ready golf yet. They wait to get their yardage, figure out what club to hit after someone else has played their shot.

Sorry, but you're wrong. If you think a 4.5 hour round isn't slow, it's because your group is slow. A couple 15 minute holes...sure, maybe. averaging 15 minutes a hole? You're slow.

Yeah but this is coming from a guy that plays speed golf and thinks a 3 hour round is slow

Another reason for the possible tension on these threads is that we also like to get a little hyperbolic at times ...

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this site

[Slice of Life]

Yeah but this is coming from a guy that plays speed golf and thinks a 3 hour round is slow

Hahaha

Hey, I never said 3 hours is slow. Unless you're riding by yourself with a wide open course.

Any time under 4 hours is acceptable IMO

[Dave2512]

For me it's less about the total time than the frustration of standing around watching the madness. A half hour or whatever isn't going to disrupt my weekly schedule. I may eat dinner a little later that day. But that is nothing compared to watching someone getting out of position looking for errant shots before attempting to hit out of the gunch to save double like the US Open is about to slip off the hook. I can deal with a decent player lining up putts like Furyk because all his putts together don't take as much time as the golfer chasing balls into weeds just a couple times. It's not the number of strokes it's the reasons that cause the of strokes. To chase balls and be quick means no dawdling doing everything else. I see it but those types are the exception.

[turtleback]

I don't believe a single person who says a 4.5 hour foursome round is slow plays golf. Y'all need to get off the website and golf every now and then. 4.5 is an acceptable weekend foursome round where you might wait every now and the. If your group has a low scoring hole. 4 is rushed unless it is a bunch of scratch golfers who go fairway/green a high percentage of the time and you really know the course. 5 is when the round starts to be unbearable. It is dependent on the course though. Short and wide open courses should play slightly faster obviously.

If you are only waiting "every now and then" then 4.5 hours is an absurdly long time for a round of golf to take.  Unless those "now and then" waits are a half hour each.

[bkuehn1952]

Quote:

What exactly does correct pace of play mean? Does it mean play at a pace of 4 1/2 hours or less? Or is it what I believe to maintain your position behind the group ahead?

Many courses have a rated "Pace of Play" under a system developed by the USGA.  [ http://www.usga.org/MicroSiteContent.aspx?id=21474856265 ]  As the USGA states, "the USGA Pace Rating answers the question: How fast should a group of four average golfers play on a busy day?"

There are a couple courses in our area that have "Pace of Play" ratings close to the 4:30 mark.  There are long walks between a number of greens/tees and it is a bit like walking an extra 5-6 holes.  The average golfer is going to have a double digit handicap and occasionally will have to look for a golf ball.

If a group of 4 walkers were on pace to finish within the rated "Pace of Play", they should not be subject to warnings to pick up their pace.  If a hole or two opens up in front of them, it would be appropriate for them to allow faster trailing groups to play through, within reason.  I also think it is appropriate for groups of 4 average golfers, who are likely to take the full rated time period to play, to schedule their play later in the morning.  Let the "rabbits" do their thing at sunrise.

Frankly, I avoid playing on weekend mornings at popular courses with high "Pace of Play" ratings.  It is too hard to play decent golf while idly watching the foursome in front stumble around the course in 4 1/2 hours.

[Jake Goodman]

You're gonna have a tough sell there.  I ride virtually 100%, but know plenty of walkers that play quickly.  They might struggle to get around in 2:30, but they can easily keep it under 3:30 without breaking a sweat and generally can keep up with riding partners.....

2:45 walking 18 holes without anyone in the front of me, and no sense of urgency or rush. 2:30 might be pushing it, I have to try when the course gets empty because of "winter" and slight rain.

[NJpatbee]

If all foursomes are playing 4 hours is a good target time for most courses I have played.  4.5 hours is slow and 5 hours I will not come back under the same circumstances.  I normally play once on weekdays and once on the weekend and the weekday round is under less crowded conditions and is about 3 hours.  I have also learned the less crowded tee times on my favorite courses and can usually do less than 4 hours on a weekend afternoon.

I may not be typical, but on weekends I have often paid $20+ in additional green fees to play a less crowded course (now I just wait until 2pm and get the senior rate).

[flopster]

Unfortunately, "correct" pace of play is whatever the course says it should be.  That doesn't mean that a player shouldn't do everything he can to do better than that.  Posted policy is usually the maximum time expected, not the optimal time to play.  Courses too often err exactly as your scenario instead of encouraging players to play at the best pace possible.

Yes this is exactly what is happening, the management has even said they would like to see faster rounds but they don't seem to know how to "educate" the public on how to achieve this, people nowadays are just so damn sensitive to anyone telling or trying to help them do something better, where I marshal is in the middle of nowhere and it gets so damn quiet I can hear the players clearly sometimes over 400 yards away and to put it mildly they would just assume I go away than be there to help. One of the problems we run into quite often is we will get people who really have no business teeing it up at this course, I have heard of people losing over a dozen balls in one round and when something like that happens I think it's a little beyond obvious the course is definitely too much.

The poll doesn't address the issue when you are leading the pack with nobody in front of you.  This doesn't only apply to the first group in the morning, but to any group with a number of open tee times ahead of them.  They need to be at least as aware of their pace as any group in the middle of the pack, because they set the tone the entire course behind them.

No it doesn't and that's a good point usually taken for granted, like most other we have a few "rabbit" groups that the course would like to see set the pace of play but this rarely if ever happens, basically I think the mens club morning games say if there is too big of a gap at the end from the first to second then penalty strokes will be added, problem is no one from the rabbit group sticks around long enough to time the next group and no one from behind can see just when they finish.

[CarlOwen]

It is no mystery to me why golf is declining in popularity year after year.

Just for the heck of it, I decided to check out my local muni which I used to play quite a bit years ago.

After watching hackers take forever with pre-shot routines, playing charade with "no you go first, you're away" in extremis, and worst of all, this ridiculous standing over putts, marking balls, moving gnat debris, looking at grain and mapping out nuances on greens as if they were in a high stakes match play event (not trying to save a double bogey), I gave up after 9 holes and nearly 2.5 hours later.

If I had to endure this with any regularity, I would quit golf altogether.

IMO, these golf courses MUST to a better job speeding up play, even if it means telling golfers they have to leave the course.

[nevets88]

It is no mystery to me why golf is declining in popularity year after year.

Just for the heck of it, I decided to check out my local muni which I used to play quite a bit years ago.

After watching hackers take forever with pre-shot routines, playing charade with "no you go first, you're away" in extremis, and worst of all, this ridiculous standing over putts, marking balls, moving gnat debris, looking at grain and mapping out nuances on greens as if they were in a high stakes match play event (not trying to save a double bogey), I gave up after 9 holes and nearly 2.5 hours later.

If I had to endure this with any regularity, I would quit golf altogether.

IMO, these golf courses MUST to a better job speeding up play, even if it means telling golfers they have to leave the course.

This is why I play 9 holes so often now. My natural, feels good pace of play is 3:30 walking. Having to constantly endure 5+ hour 18 hole rounds just suck the life out of me. I don't know how I endured them before smartphones existed.

[Dave2512]

IMO an enforcement issue that is tough to enforce because many courses simply can't afford to turn anyone away. It's not the only thing that gets ignored. You can pretty much walk on just about any course here and play no matter what you are wearing. Which I honestly don't have a problem with other than I don't think choosing not to enforce some rules sends the wrong message to those that have trouble self policing.

I am adept at getting around slow groups. I will skip them on a hole I usually play par or better when the chance comes if there is space in front of them. If not I kill time until I get to the turn and then I head back to the first tee if the course is open. Planning is a big part I simply avoid peak times. It's not worth the wait. But my experience is usually the course is moving at a decent pace. As bad as slow is I don't care to play with impatient people that feel like it is their right to play as fast as they like even when we are ahead of the POP. I don't want to be out there the entire day or anything but I enjoy my time on the course as much as the actual playing.

[Lihu]

I put down "right behind the party in front of you", that is, if you have one in front.

[MrDC]

You're gonna have a tough sell there.  I ride virtually 100%, but know plenty of walkers that play quickly.  They might struggle to get around in 2:30, but they can easily keep it under 3:30 without breaking a sweat and generally can keep up with riding partners.....

The common denominator is always the same.  A bit of a sense of urgency and a willingness to just keep moving.....towards your ball.

Maybe you're right, but I'd like to see a walking group make it around my local Bethpage courses in 3:00 without breaking a sweat, sorry, but I doubt it can be done without doing one thing- rushing.

And I don't want a "sense of urgency" on the golf course, I have that at work, I'm there to relax and play golf, and if that means some people behind me quit the game, I say good, less people to wait for next time, I really think this kind of threatening stance of "play faster or I'm going to quit" is super lame.

I play ready golf, I'm ready to hit my ball when it's my turn, I don't stop for lunch, I don't take more than 1-2 practice swings, I walk fast, I keep moving, I don't "Pro" putts, I don't even take more than two putts, I pick up when it's a bad hole... if that's not good enough to play the game then the expectations are unreasonable.