Why are Women such Bad Instructors?

[Phil McGleno]

In my lifetime Ive met maybe 100 people I would call good instructors-They have good knowledge and know how to interact with students. Theyre all a bit different but those two bases are covered by all of them-None of them are female. Why is it that women are such bad instructors?-Spare me the PC crap, they are. Is it just a numbers game-Few women teach so the odds of any of them being in the top 1% are slim? Is it just that they tend to be assigned to teach women and children- I know of guys who would NOT take a lesson from a woman even if she taught Tiger Woods? What is it? Women today have access to the same information.-Are they just shoved into the women/children teaching role?-Do they focus too much on the social aspects of golf and not enough on teaching-(Maybe they are stuck in the pro shop and not given the teaching opportunities men are)? I have my own thoughts but Id love to hear yours. [U]EDIT: In case this isnt clear-There is no REASON that I can tell why they should be worse but on average they are IMO.-Just trying to figure out why???[/U] PS-No denying that they're on lots of the lists out there-But thats some more PC affirmative action type stuff going on there. [COLOR=8B1A1A]Edit: Bad is not bad at everything. Bad here means they are not good or great at teaching better players, men, etc. Teaching kids and beginners doesn't make you a good all around instructor. Title is controversial on purpose. To be a great instructor you can't lack the ability to teach anyone but bogey golfers and kids.[/COLOR]

[boogielicious]

More importantly @Phil McGleno , why are there so many bad instructors?  Men or Women?  I've seen first hand horrible instructors at driving ranges.  You listen to them and you wonder if they have ever actually played golf.  Your assertion may be just from lack of numbers.  If 90% of instructors are bad and 5% of instructors are women, then the good women instructors are very rare.

[SavvySwede]

My guess would be the numbers game. There are so few female golfers as it is and with a lot a men preferring male instructors there is no money to be made. Eventually they are pushed out of the market without really getting a chance.

I don't have the statistics but I would guess that female instructors are more rare than female golfers. I would also guess most of them move on to different careers within a few years.

Interestingly, the female instructor at my club seems to give a lot more lessons than the male pros and I see her teaching a lot of men. Probably doesn't hurt she is very attractive and has a nice Swedish accent. I've seen her on the range and she has a great swing and ball flight.

[Patch]

There are both good, and bad golf instructors, regardless of their sex. Legacy golf course in Phoenix has some female instructors. They use to anyways.  Suzy Whaley could probably hold her own with most men instructors.  Harmon's place Vegas had a good female instructor a few years ago.

I think given equal ability to instruct, I would choose a woman instructor over a man.

[Abu3baid]

I took an aim point lesson from a female instructor and she was great! I don't see any reason why they can't learn the same stuff men do and be good teachers at it.. I had more female professors than male professors in school, it is probably the lack of interest they have in teaching golf! I don't even know how much money is in teaching either, but I feel like a small percentage really make it big time right?

[rehmwa]

More importantly @Phil McGleno , why are there so many bad instructors?  Men or Women?  I've seen first hand horrible instructors at driving ranges.  You listen to them and you wonder if they have ever actually played golf.  Your assertion may be just from lack of numbers.  If 90% of instructors are bad and 5% of instructors are women, then the good women instructors are very rare.

This - ^

Also - I think golf would also have a very disproporationate amount of male players that just would be terrible to a female instructor even if she would be the best instructor out there.  Even if they'd even give it a chance - Phil's comment acknowledges that too " I know of guys who would NOT take a lesson from a woman even if she taught Tiger Woods?"  It's an old boys' game for better or worse and likely one the last that will get over its ingrained chauvanism.  (Not PC crap,,,, just an observation).

I know that some sports - I wouldn't say golf (it's mental, not physical), but some other sports, definitely benefit from same gender coaching.  Especially when the coaches are former athletes in the sport.  Some I can understand.  In the sport I teach, there's definitely a strength component that applies and there are different techniques for strong vs weaker people (but if I teach a mainly girl technique to a weaker guy I won't told tell him "this is what I teach women competitors because it let's you use both legs to launch").  In my sport, actually, it's the women that seem to have severe gender bias - they get off on the whole "girl power" thing.  I don't understand it, but they are underrepresented, so maybe it's a defense mechanism or a motivational thing.

[Missouri Swede]

This - ^

Also - I think golf would also have a very disproporationate amount of male players that just would be terrible to a female instructor even if she would be the best instructor out there.  Even if they'd even give it a chance - Phil's comment acknowledges that too "I know of guys who would NOT take a lesson from a woman even if she taught Tiger Woods?"  It's an old boys' game for better or worse and likely one the last that will get over its ingrained chauvanism.  (Not PC crap,,,, just an observation).

I recall a commercial on TGC a couple months ago about men taking lessons from LPGA teachers.  (Even including the the man joking to his wife about "seeing another woman"--guys, don't try this one at home.)  I haven't seen any followup ads--maybe they thought they'd just give it a try to see what sort of response it would get.

[newtogolf]

It's a numbers game, golf is a sport dominated by white men.  I'd guess the percentage of good female instructors compared to bad is in line with the men, just that the overall numbers for women are so much lower.

Many argue that LPGA Tour golfers are still behind PGA Tour players in terms of both their long game and short game performance so maybe their games don't develop to the level of the men because the competition doesn't warrant it, maybe the same is true on the instruction side.

[dennyjones]

There are no women PGA teachers in my local area.  I would not have a problem taking a lesson from any "good" instructor, male or female.     I believe regardless of gender, a pro with a different teaching method, sometimes, would be beneficial.

BTW...a finalist PGA teacher of the year is a female.

[mvmac]

Agree with the numbers game. There are maybe 50 instructors in golf that are any good.

[joekelly]

Whoa, Mike.  Is your comment counting only women or both sexes?  If both, among how many 1000s of golf instructors  including all those 'certified' by PGA,  worldwide as competent golf teachers, and you say only 50 are any good.  If true, that's  not much of an endorsement of PGA standards.

And more importantly, to most of us here,  how can we, the receivers of instruction, identify any one of those 50 of 10000 (est)?  That's   one half of one percent 'any good'.  How about YOU?  No offense intended.  I appreciate all your advice  but the thing is, i am not paying you money.

[9424tm]

There are no women PGA teachers in my local area.  I would not have a problem taking a lesson from any "good" instructor, male or female.     I believe regardless of gender, a pro with a different teaching method, sometimes, would be beneficial.   BTW...a finalist PGA teacher of the year is a female.

The PGA teacher of the year is a woman and she is quite good. She teaches at my course and I have taken a lesson from her before.

[Golfingdad]

Whoa, Mike.  Is your comment counting only women or both sexes?  If both, among how many 1000s of golf instructors  including all those 'certified' by PGA,  worldwide as competent golf teachers, and you say only 50 are any good.  If true, that's  not much of an endorsement of PGA standards.  And more importantly, to most of us here,  how can we, the receivers of instruction, identify any one of those 50 of 10000 (est)?  That's   one half of one percent 'any good'.  How about YOU?  No offense intended.  I appreciate all your advice  but the thing is, i am not paying you money.

He won't say it but I will ... Yes he's one of them. (Don't think he was meaning to be specific with the number either, just slightly hyperbolic to say that there are very, very few good instructors out there of any sex relative to how many actually claim to be instructors.)

[FireDragon76]

I'm not much of a golfer but I've lived long enough to find it hard to believe that teaching women and children could be less demanding than teaching adult men.

Patriarchy and sexism are more likely explanations for those particular guys that are uncomfortable learning from women.   To listen to a teacher you have to put your ego aside and at least, temporarily, put yourself somewhere else on the chain of the hierarchy.

I'd tend to believe the issue is that golf instruction is varied and often confusing, to begin with.  There's also a lack of scientific rigor behind most of it (it reminds me a lot of martial arts in this respect).

[mvmac]

Whoa, Mike.  Is your comment counting only women or both sexes?  If both, among how many 1000s of golf instructors  including all those 'certified' by PGA,  worldwide as competent golf teachers, and you say only 50 are any good.  If true, that's  not much of an endorsement of PGA standards.

Yes I'm referring to all instructors.

The PGA "standards" are a joke. Most instructors still don't know the correct ball flights laws, they don't know how the body works to perform a functional pivot and they don't understand simple cause and effect of the pivot, pressure transfer, grip, etc.

And more importantly, to most of us here,  how can we, the receivers of instruction, identify any one of those 50 of 10000 (est)?  That's   one half of one percent 'any good'.  How about YOU?  No offense intended.  I appreciate all your advice  but the thing is, i am not paying you money.

You have to do a little homework on your instructor. Review the materials they put out there and ask them these questions.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/the_instructor_quiz_nine_questions_youve_gotta_ask

I would put myself in the top 50, that's not really saying much though because of how low the bar is. One thing I am proud of is the quality information that I've shared with "the masses".

He won't say it but I will ... Yes he's one of them. (Don't think he was meaning to be specific with the number either, just slightly hyperbolic to say that there are very, very few good instructors out there of any sex relative to how many actually claim to be instructors.)

Thanks, I've benefited from being around some smart people. Dave and Erik are two of those guys.

[MS256]

I'm not much of a golfer but I've lived long enough to find it hard to believe that teaching women and children could be less demanding than teaching adult men.

Now there is something I can agree with.

After coaching baseball and giving hitting lessons for a long time I came to one conclusion when I coached girls softball for a few years when my daughter was playing.

That conclusion was that Pat Summitt must be a damned genius .

All jokes aside the thing that stands out like a sore thumb when I go to an LPGA event is that they are very impressive as long as everything is a stock shot. They are much more lost lost when they have to create/invent shots they've never hit before.

I don't see them standing behind trees and thinking well I think I'll just hit a low slicer around this tree with an adjusted backswing because of the limb behind me and get the ball just low enough to clear this limb and just high enough to clear that limb but just long enough to clear the water hazard.

[iacas]

I'm not much of a golfer but I've lived long enough to find it hard to believe that teaching women and children could be less demanding than teaching adult men.

I will say that most females and children are not of the ability level of the average male golfer. You're unlikely to spend much time working on detailed, intricate pieces to get a 2 handicap to a 1 or scratch when you work only or primarily with women and children.

You don't need to space in your paragraphs, btw.

Patriarchy and sexism are more likely explanations for those particular guys that are uncomfortable learning from women.

I don't know. I think women are perfectly capable of playing good golf, but as a general rule, they do lack certain things: speed and the ability to hit the ball far is one of them.

Some guys might care about the fact that a woman teacher (their woman teacher, not ANY woman teacher) will never be capable of hitting the ball as hard as them.

I don't know that I'd care.

Sometimes, too, students are okay with being "touched" and it helps, but it's awkward when the mix is male-female (regardless of who is student/teacher).

The PGA "standards" are a joke. Most instructors still don't know the correct ball flights laws, they don't know how the body works to perform a functional pivot and they don't understand simple cause and effect of the pivot, pressure transfer, grip, etc.

I'm in the PGA. It is a joke.

I was asked in my Level 1s whether I teach "path or impact?" You know, because you can't teach "both" and that's if the question even makes sense at all to you.

I tuned most of the rest of the "Intro to Instruction" class out while biting my fist to stop from chuckling. It was a train wreck and included "women play better when they're pregnant because they have to stick their butts out to counter-balance their pregnant bellies."

I would put myself in the top 50, that's not really saying much though because of how low the bar is. One thing I am proud of is the quality information that I've shared with "the masses".

Mike's in the top 50. Probably the top 25.

That's not bragging because the bar is incredibly low.

[newtogolf]

I will say that most females and children are not of the ability level of the average male golfer. You're unlikely to spend much time working on detailed, intricate pieces to get a 2 handicap to a 1 or scratch when you work only or primarily with women and children.

I've have watched people take a lot of lessons and overall women and children are much more passive receiving instruction than men.  The men I see take lessons tend to challenge the instructor more, want to act like they know and understand more than they do they are also more resistant to doing what the instructor asks.