Jason AllDay - Penalty Strokes for Slow Play?

[tdiii]

I want to see the tour start sending off notoriously fast players as the first groups off on Thursday and Fridays.  Say, Snedaker and someone like Fowler.  Then, behind that first group you put notoriously slow guys, say Kevin Na and J.B. Holmes.  Force Na and Holmes to play an entire round on the clock.  And just continue doing this every week until guys figure it out. 

[Golfingdad]

3 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Hey, Mark Crossfield can't spell. Who knew!

What about the Secret Tour Pro dummy before that?  "...when your having a root canal...," and two "could of"'s in three paragraphs.  I'm skeptical of his 9 minute claim and his 5:45 round claim being because Jason Day is slow and not because of some other things.  If the green was clear, and it was his turn, and he took 9 minutes, I find it awfully hard to believe that wasn't a big story immediately.

Secondly, slow play penalties in a match play event would be really tricky.

[Big Lex]

I tell you what would reduce slow play: If, for some reason, slow play screwed up the sponsor's advertising, or the TV network's programming, you would see things change in a hurry. As soon as someone threatened to cut off the flow of money into the tournament pot, the tour would immediately do whatever was necessary to get the pace of play in proper parameters. There's really no incentive on the part of the sponsors to change anything, or I can't think of one. My sense is that it's always been a very controversial issue among tour players themselves, and their leadership. Some players hate it, others don't care. And as long as the money keeps flowing, nothing happens.   

[Missouri Swede]

One additional measure that could be implemented is right from the etiquette section of the RoG. Change "it should invite" to the "the Committee will direct."

Quote

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

I'm not sure it would work, though: 1. Could actually lengthen the time for the day's play. 2. Doesn't provide any stroke or financial disincentive to speed up--probably more of the stigma of it. 3. If every group is slow, no one is slow.

Some of these guys just don't get it that they're slow.  Spieth seemed surprised when he was given a warning on the Euro tour a few weeks back. (Yes, 10 practice swings for an iron shot do add up.)

[colin007]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Thanks,, @Wansteadimp , that all makes sense.  The WGC doesn't run enough events to have their own full-time officials.  I did read a bit about Speith, and it sounds like the allowed times on the European Tour are not much different that the PGA's times.  Perhaps its just that the European Tour officials have more guts than the PGA officials.  I still say that it won't take more than two or three stroke penalties being assessed, or even just one to a big name player in contention,  to change the habits of most of the players out there.  A guy misses the cut, or loses a couple hundred thousand bucks finishing T3 instead of 2, and they'll learn.

Exactly. Make an announcement that the penalty will be strokes, and then penalize someone on the very first tournament thereafter. It'll take max 3 tournaments before everyone steps in line. I'm really sick of slow play and I'm in favor of swift and severe penalties. Caning if necessary.

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, tdiii said:

I want to see the tour start sending off notoriously fast players as the first groups off on Thursday and Fridays.  Say, Snedaker and someone like Fowler.  Then, behind that first group you put notoriously slow guys, say Kevin Na and J.B. Holmes.  Force Na and Holmes to play an entire round on the clock.  And just continue doing this every week until guys figure it out. 

 

29 minutes ago, colin007 said:

I'm in favor of swift and severe penalties. Caning if necessary.

Did either of you have parents who worked for the Stasi? 

Edited March 29, 2016 by natureboy

[Wally Fairway]

While I generally agree that there should be an effort to speed play; I will give a pass on the finals of the match play event. Day & Oosty were in the last group of the day, playing match play for the championship - while the Rory & Rafa were playing in a consolation match, and while we think that is an important match and the difference is worth lost of $$$, I'm thinking that playing their 7th match of the week and 4th in 2 days it didn't matter as much to them so they played fast. Hell look how quickly that single pro can play on any given Saturday or Sunday if they are first off the tee box with a marker.

I mean Day won 5&4, if they had played on pace it would have been under 3 hours on TV, that final group always plays slowly, if it is for the win, grinding each shot, yardages, wind, reading greens. It is just all the more evident when that group is 1 of 2 on the course. So I think it was more recognizable and maybe even worse on Sunday. But it isn't like they were holding up the members who had an afternoon tee time for after the last WGC group teed off.

Should the tour address slow play, sure; but does it impact what happens on the courses I play, I really don't think so as they have pace of play standards or people already have bad habits (as in not being ready to play)

[jkelley9]

The main reason I would agree with the enforcement of penalty strokes possibly coupled with a fine is so that when "these guys," that like to watch golf, and play maybe a handful of times a year with their buddies start seeing their favorite tour pros getting penalized and showing them that this is REALLY PART OF THE GAME, then when they go out themselves they won't cause a ruckus on the course by having 3 groups behind them on a beautiful Saturday morning/afternoon. It causes so much tension, I see it all the time at public courses on Saturdays especially.

I'm finding this all the time when I play even on my normal weekday round. Sure I walk by myself and finish up 18 in less then 3 hours usually but when I get behind a group like this it's very obvious. I'm okay with getting behind someone and staying there at a 4 hour pace. No problem. But they will literally try and emulate the pros but will play at a 5+ hour pace because they're having to hit/find more balls. Most of them are obviously "dressed the part," that they've at least played a few times or semi-regularly, but will shoot 100+ (I read a stat somewhere that only 18% of golfers are 'bogey golfers' or better?) and act as if there's cameras watching them. When you're playing on a public course... you need to freaking play the game. Nobody cares to watch your swing all by itself for the chance of some non-existent highlight reel. Play ready golf. Even when they let me play through it's not an acceptable solution to the problem. In fact, even though I like my 3-hour pace, I would rather play a 4-hour pace behind someone than them letting me play through to finish at my pace. It messes me all up.

[Fourputt]

23 hours ago, Elmer said:

Think of the compelling television coverage on sunday. You 2 main draws are in contention and the tournament is decided by a slow play penalty!!!!!

You dont bring in the youth or keep viewers or have compelling competition by having the Masters decided by slow play penalties.

However you need to do something to teach the young players that slow play is unacceptable. 

 

 

They'd only need to do it once and the players would know that they were serious.  Problem solved.

[Elmer]

18 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

They'd only need to do it once and the players would know that they were serious.  Problem solved.

Correct me if I am wrong, but they have assessed this penalty previously, to other golfers on tour and pace of play has not increased, generally speaking.
I think if someone lost the Masters because of a late round pace of play penalty that penalized golfer would possibly change his/her pace.

But the penalty would not change anyone else's.
I Think Pro Golfers dont change something unless they are directly called on it.
Look at all the discussion on questionable drops, steriods or "tiger cheats" that goes on.

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but they have assessed this penalty previously,

Based on my very limited research, the last time a penalty stroke was assessed for slow play on the PGA tour was in 1995.  A young amateur at the Masters was given a stroke in 2013.  To truly get their attention, I believe they'll have to penalize someone who is both a "popular" big name, and in contention at the time.  The other thing that could change things would be to enforce the rules all the time against every player, resulting in a significant number of penalty strokes for a short time until the players truly understood the message applies to "me" too.

.  

[Elmer]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Based on my very limited research, the last time a penalty stroke was assessed for slow play on the PGA tour was in 1995.  A young amateur at the Masters was given a stroke in 2013.  To truly get their attention, I believe they'll have to penalize someone who is both a "popular" big name, and in contention at the time.  The other thing that could change things would be to enforce the rules all the time against every player, resulting in a significant number of penalty strokes for a short time until the players truly understood the message applies to "me" too.

.  

Maybe I am thinking of the warning and not actual penalty.
I think to be effective they would have to penalize alot of people across the board.
Similar to how they are instituting staying in the batters box in MLB.
Do it, and stay consistent with implementation. 

[Fourputt]

27 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Maybe I am thinking of the warning and not actual penalty.
I think to be effective they would have to penalize alot of people across the board.
Similar to how they are instituting staying in the batters box in MLB.
Do it, and stay consistent with implementation. 

Correct.  They have to show that they mean business.  Once they get the point across, then it will become only an occasional issue.  Players will know that when they receive a warning, the penalty is certain to follow if they don't get it together.  Falling two or three holes behind should not be tolerated - no excuses, no sympathy, period!

[Dave2512]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but IMO perfectly acceptable to be slow on the final day of a match play tournament. Can you imagine the final four blazing around the course in a couple hours? As a ticket holder I wouldn't want to see a speed golf exhibition when there are only two matches out there.

[curitiba]

I realize the putt Day had to close out McIlroy was a downhill bender but he took nearly 2-3 minutes on that one.  Sorry Fellows, no excuse.

In 2, I can play 18 holes in 3 hours both shooting in mid 80's.   These guys play 4:10 shooting 72's. 

YAWN!

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

Should the tour address slow play, sure; but does it impact what happens on the courses I play, I really don't think so as they have pace of play standards or people already have bad habits (as in not being ready to play)

I think it absolutely affects the stuff you see on the courses you play.

4 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but IMO perfectly acceptable to be slow on the final day of a match play tournament. Can you imagine the final four blazing around the course in a couple hours? As a ticket holder I wouldn't want to see a speed golf exhibition when there are only two matches out there.

Nobody said they'd be playing speed golf, but slow play with two balls in play (and players not even finishing every hole) is awfully boring. That's quite a lot of time between shots. Hardly exciting to watch.

[tdiii]

On 3/29/2016 at 4:25 PM, natureboy said:

 

Did either of you have parents who worked for the Stasi? 

In fairness, I'd give them a warning before caning them. 

[natureboy]

4 hours ago, tdiii said:

In fairness, I'd give them a warning before caning them. 

Your orignial mindf$%k idea was actually more Stasi-ish an approach. Your humanitarian gesture of a warning is truly more than those slow play miscreants deserve. Off with their heads!