Dirty Sandbaggers

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, jetsknicks1 said:

The format is actually head to head, the two "low" hc's will play against each other, as will the two "high" hc's. I love playing in the league because I'm able to get out one afternoon a week but I think it's pretty obvious that somebody handing in a 65 for nine holes is obviously doing something a bit shady.

Shady? I'd say it was darker than night on Pluto.

A business associate who played 4 rounds in his life with the coordination of this cat scores about like that. . .

And this is what I think of sandbaggers.

 

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

It is a nine hole handicap.  Multiply by 2.

Thanks. . .

 

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Also, it is a league.  I doubt they follow the USGA Handicap System.  When I played in a league it was always a form of rolling average with some limits as to the maximum for any single hole, similar to ESC but just a fixed number like "10".

Yeah, I was wondering how they came up with those numbers?

[Tat14]

1 hour ago, jetsknicks1 said:

It is definitely a 9 hole handicap and that's what makes theirs so ridiculous. The only hope we have of winning tomorrow is if they tank one more week to really set those numbers or if my buddy and I completely play our arses off lol.

Good Lawd!

I can't imagine shooting a 58 on the back nine just for that sweet $50 the following week. Very strange.

[JonMA1]

@jetsknicks1, is there ANY possibility that because it's early in the season, they weren't sandbagging? In my last two rounds, I had a spread of 16 strokes. Trust me, it wasn't sandbagging .

I know people cheat and that sucks. But it seems so easy to assume the worst. Sounds like you know these guys though so you're probably right.

I suppose that if we're going to play in leagues, we can't be bothered when others cheat or when others think we've cheated. For me, those two things take a lot of the fun out of golf.

[jetsknicks1]

4 hours ago, Tat14 said:

Good Lawd!

I can't imagine shooting a 58 on the back nine just for that sweet $50 the following week. Very strange.

It's not even $50 a week, that's what each member of the winning team gets in August lol

4 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

@jetsknicks1, is there ANY possibility that because it's early in the season, they weren't sandbagging? In my last two rounds, I had a spread of 16 strokes. Trust me, it wasn't sandbagging .

I know people cheat and that sucks. But it seems so easy to assume the worst. Sounds like you know these guys though so you're probably right.

I suppose that if we're going to play in leagues, we can't be bothered when others cheat or when others think we've cheated. For me, those two things take a lot of the fun out of golf.

Unfortunately sandbagging seems to be the norm for some of the teams. One of the guys on the team we played last week consistently three putted, didn't matter if he was putting from 10ft or 30ft. But like you said, I just look at it as a way to play during the week so I normally don't let it bother me. There's a bunch of good guys in the league.

[gregsandiego]

9 hours ago, HitAndGiggle said:

Competitive golf at the lower levels (your's and mine) is full of cheaters. I remember catching my adversary shaving strokes in a similar league several years ago. I confronted him about it as we walked off the 8th green in front of the other two players. The cheater went on to win the league title that season. That, for me, tainted this whole concept of adult, amateur competition. I've seen winning scramble tournament scores turned in that were obvious frauds. 

I play industry events where you can "buy mulligans" - tickets for $1. Then the 4 very best golfers usually team.

Another friend did a scramble but awarded all the cash and prizes completely randomly - because he figures everyone cheats anyway. This was the best format.

[Denny Bang Bang]

I hate sandbaggers, lousy cheats!

In some cases though, especially early in the season, I can see it seeming that way, when it's not.  But of course, I've seen guys play that game before too.

My buddies and I joined a bowling league years ago, and I was the only guy with any real experience bowling.  We were all athletes, and my teammates just got a lot better every week as they played more.  We won the league and a lot of other teams were pissed at us (especially the super serious teams), and thought we were sandbagging.

[jetsknicks1]

Today is the day we play these guys and I'm actually really interested to see how it goes.

[phillyk]

In the league at my course, I'm the guy who scores the points and gives out handicaps.  I only started it last year, but I tried to do something similar to the GHIN system, but that doesn't quite work when there are only 14 weeks.

What I do now is an average but with ESC depending on handicap.  For 9 holes, if they were a single digit cap, they maxed out with double bogey, 10-15 is a 8 max, and 15-18 is a 9 max.  If anybody gets a 10 on a hole, they automatically pick up.  Our handicaps only go to 18. If you are above 18 cap for 9 holes, we pretty much said that's your problem.  There really isn't many, if any, of them.  The ESC only applies to recalculating handicaps for the next week.  What I do is an average over the first 3 weeks, which is tough.  But for the 4th week, I'll average the 3 lower scores.  The 5th week, I take out the highest and lowest scores, then average the other 3.  The rest of the weeks are similar, but I only take out a max of 2 highest and 2 lowest scores for the calculations.

I get some flack because people expect the person that has a stellar day to have their hdcp drop a few strokes and I usually end up cancelling it out, or the opposite when someone really sucks, their hdcp won't automatically jump up.  It makes sense though, because it was probably a fluke day.  But if they continue to play one way or another, the cap will change.

With this system, our league remains evenly matched.  I'm a no-nonsense guy when it comes to the rules and handicapping of the league.  I won't put up with sandbagging or whatever people try to do to get a stroke here or there.  Mostly our league is a lot of fun, not super competitive.  Just 14 teams of guys who get drink too much over 9 holes.

[MacDutch]

On 13-4-2017 at 3:39 PM, jetsknicks1 said:

Today is the day we play these guys and I'm actually really interested to see how it goes.

So how did it go?

[jetsknicks1]

3 hours ago, MacDutch said:

So how did it go?

They tried to totally sandbag again, hitting good drives and irons and then 3&4 putting everything. It only took 6 holes for my partner and I to make up all the strokes we needed to go ahaead of them. After that, we attempted to give the, every putt inside of 6ft but they wouldn't take them lol. That's okay, we got our points and we will most likely play them again.

[Grinde6]

Our league does 4 divisions of 10 teams and each team has 3 guys.  We do match play top 2 scores for each hole, scramble, shamble, shipwreck, Chicago, etc...every week is a new game until the playoffs, then it is individual match play top 2 scores. We have had some issues with our top division (my team is in this division) having people sandbagging their handicaps or just not posting any scores.  We do it where the top 2 teams from each division go up, and the bottom 2 go down each year so there is a couple new teams in each division.  There are some weeks I am giving up 6-7 strokes which is incredibly stupid.  We are changing the system for our top division this year on a trial basis.  We still carry handicaps, and when we play match play they will pair top handicaps, middle, and lowest against each other, but this year there are no strokes given...it is straight up play.  They sent out and email and took votes and it was almost unanimous to do it this way.  Will be interesting to see how it goes.

[OrangeHog]

I play on the Golf Channel Am Tour and I'd say that everyone I've played with either holds a legit or a vanity handicap.  That said, I played on another Am Tour when I lived up North and it was a joke.  You'd have guys playing in handicap groups claiming to be a 16 or 17 handicap card an 80 multiple tournaments in a row.  It was so bad I had to quit that tour.  Thankfully the GCAT keeps it tight (for the most part).

As for scrambles, I enjoy playing a few charity events during the year but I never have any expectations of winning, especially with a large group because I know someone will roll in with a ridiculous score.  Best I've ever played in a 4-man scramble we carded a -12 and that was hitting every FW and every green and most of us being on fire with the putter.  Group after us rolled in at -18 and watching them we clearly knew there was no chance of them shooting that score.

Cheating sucks but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

[Lihu]

8 hours ago, jetsknicks1 said:

They tried to totally sandbag again, hitting good drives and irons and then 3&4 putting everything. It only took 6 holes for my partner and I to make up all the strokes we needed to go ahaead of them. After that, we attempted to give the, every putt inside of 6ft but they wouldn't take them lol. That's okay, we got our points and we will most likely play them again.

6 foot gimmes? Now that's funny!

 

14 minutes ago, OrangeHog said:

I play on the Golf Channel Am Tour and I'd say that everyone I've played with either holds a legit or a vanity handicap.  That said, I played on another Am Tour when I lived up North and it was a joke.  You'd have guys playing in handicap groups claiming to be a 16 or 17 handicap card an 80 multiple tournaments in a row.  It was so bad I had to quit that tour.  Thankfully the GCAT keeps it tight (for the most part).

As for scrambles, I enjoy playing a few charity events during the year but I never have any expectations of winning, especially with a large group because I know someone will roll in with a ridiculous score.  Best I've ever played in a 4-man scramble we carded a -12 and that was hitting every FW and every green and most of us being on fire with the putter.  Group after us rolled in at -18 and watching them we clearly knew there was no chance of them shooting that score.

Cheating sucks but, unfortunately, it happens all the time.

Okay, that worse than sandbagging. . .

[Yukari]

I hate sandbaggers as much as anyone. But having said that, I can shoot mid- to high 70's one day and shoot in the 90's the next day. This game is very fickle. 

[No Mulligans]

26 minutes ago, Yukari said:

I hate sandbaggers as much as anyone. But having said that, I can shoot mid- to high 70's one day and shoot in the 90's the next day. This game is very fickle. 

Yeah, looking at my last 20 differentials... Low 10.0, high 26.1.  On any given day you might conclude I'm a vanitycapper or another day a sandbagger.

[Zekez]

On 4/19/2017 at 8:45 AM, jetsknicks1 said:

They tried to totally sandbag again, hitting good drives and irons and then 3&4 putting everything. It only took 6 holes for my partner and I to make up all the strokes we needed to go ahaead of them. After that, we attempted to give the, every putt inside of 6ft but they wouldn't take them lol. That's okay, we got our points and we will most likely play them again.

If a putt is conceded don't they HAVE to take it?

My league carries the handicap over from the previous year.  As there isn't much turnover  (2 new guys out of 26 this year) the handicaps are pretty legit.  I think the main reason there are no sandbaggers is that everyone wants to shoot their best all the time.  Sure a few care about winning, but most just really want to shoot a good round.  Our handicaps range from 3-16 for 9 holes.

[jetsknicks1]

1 hour ago, Zekez said:

If a putt is conceded don't they HAVE to take it?

My league carries the handicap over from the previous year.  As there isn't much turnover  (2 new guys out of 26 this year) the handicaps are pretty legit.  I think the main reason there are no sandbaggers is that everyone wants to shoot their best all the time.  Sure a few care about winning, but most just really want to shoot a good round.  Our handicaps range from 3-16 for 9 holes.

No, you don't have to accept it. They attempted to give me two putts but they were both at least 3ft par putts so I chose to putt out. Thankfully, I made both of them.

[shanksalot]

Anything that involves a handicap will have sandbaggers so just take it with a grain of salt and don't expect the opponent to play fair. If you take it seriously you will get upset all the time. I stopped playing in handicap tournaments for that reason alone. If I play in a scramble or a men's league I do it for the enjoyment of playing golf not to win or lose. Play your best and then shake the hand of you fellow competitor at the end. Thank him for the game. Golf should be fun and enjoyable not something that gets under your skin and makes you upset. If it bothers you so much just don't play in the league at all. Life is too short to waste your time playing and getting upset and not enjoying the game.