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PGA TOUR Veteran Wins PGA CLUB Pro Championship. Is It Right?

Golfingdad

By Golfingdad,
in Tour Talk

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Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

On one hand, this sounds like a great feel-good story.  A guy who couldn't win on the PGA TOUR in 351 starts finally breaks through in a big way.  But then you think "Wait a minute, this is the club professional championship."  Huh.  OK, I guess this means that he decided to go to work in a pro shop and teach kids and run tournaments, etc, etc.  That makes the story even better!  Well, actually, no he didn't do any of that.  It just so happens that the rules allow for PGA tour veterans of 20+ years to be able to compete in the big PGA of America events.  In fact, the ONLY 3 times he's been able to play in the PGA Championship are the last three years that he's qualified by finishing in the top 5 of the PGA Club Championship.

This is completely "fair" in that it's 100% within the rules ... but is it right?

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/omar-uresti-unable-to-win-in-351-pga-tour-starts-finally-prevails-in-club-pros-major-championship

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-veteran-omar-urestis-win-in-club-pro-championship-causes-stir-among-pga-of-america-members

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David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

Strikes me as a little better than the ease with which former pros can now regain amateur status.  Talk about unringing the bell...!

Still doesn't quite pass the smell test, but then the question becomes, where do you draw the line?  PGA Tour?  Web.com?  Mini Tours?  No professional tour play at all?  

  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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A few things, as a PGA guy myself…:

  • Lonnie Nielsen has played in (and won most of the ones he's played in) several section events here in the Western New York section. He's actually won on the Champions Tour, has won several million $, etc.
  • https://www.pga.org/articles/nielsen-rackley-use-miracle-shot-win-pga-senior-junior-championship - He's had success nationally within the PGA, too. Omar isn't the first.
  • The title of the championship is the "PGA Professional Championship". It's not the "Club Pro". There's no requirement that you be a "club pro." The quotes about how he's never tackled Food & Beverage or sold sweaters or whatever is misplaced. I've never done those things either. I hope I never will. Yet I'm in the PGA and eligible to compete for the same thing as any other PGA member.
  • Sections and the national PGA have rules about how many PGA Tour events you can have played in recently, etc. to be allowed to play in section events, etc. Omar met those rules. If you want to change the rules, do so. They've been trying for years, but haven't yet.
  • Many former PGA Tour pros may settle into a life of being a "club pro." When crafting rules care should be taken not to EXCLUDE them just because they were better for a time. After all, winning the PNC (commonly called that, the "Players National Championship") gets you into a freaking major on the PGA Tour. If anyone thinks Mike Small is a regular club pro… they've got another thing coming. (Kinda what Dave was getting at with his last few sentences here…).
  • Upvote 2

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
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kpaulhus Great Member

kpaulhus

Here is my take on a very similar situation. The guy is just good, and if he is no longer competing on the PGA tour it shouldn't matter as long as the rules allow it. He played in the 94 US Open at Oakmont, and dabbled on mini tours and nationwide tours before his dream ended and he had to get a normal job. 

Last year I looked up the guy who finished first in the Mid Am qualifier in Arkansas. Packard Dewitt. 

http://www.asga.org/public/userfiles/00__2015/Results/2016/mens/mid_am_results_2016.pdf

Packard Dewitt, 45, of Germantown, Tenn., qualified for the 1994 U.S. Open and the 2003 U.S. Amateur at Oakmont (Pa.) C.C. He is playing in his second Mid-Amateur (2009). He was a college teammate of John Daly at the University of Arkansas.

 

 

Kyle Paulhus

If you really want to get better, check out Evolvr

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jamo Incredible Member

jamo

To form an opinion I'd really have to know what the repercussions of removing the automatic A-3 life member status from PGA Tour members of 20+ years would be, because I think that's what we're really talking about. It seems like he's just an outlier.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

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JetFan1983 Super Member

JetFan1983

I think it's fine. My club's head pro played in the event too but missed the cut. He played on the Web.com in 2005, 2006. It only makes sense that after they lose their cards that they find head pro jobs or head coaching jobs at places across the country and settle into a more stable lifestyle than the tour life. "Played on tour" must look really good on a resume too. 

The PGA Tour gets tougher every year. It makes sense the talent pool within the PGA of America would as well. 

Constantine

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JetFan1983 Super Member

JetFan1983

12 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

I think it's fine. My club's head pro played in the event too but missed the cut. He played on the Web.com in 2005, 2006. It only makes sense that after they lose their cards that they find head pro jobs or head coaching jobs at places across the country and settle into a more stable lifestyle than the tour life. "Played on tour" must look really good on a resume too. 

The PGA Tour gets tougher every year. It makes sense the talent pool within the PGA of America would as well. 

Ok, my bad, I didn't realize he wasn't really working anywhere within golf, but rather still fulfilled the requirements for eligibility. Yea Uresti actually had four starts on the PGA Tour last year. Mike Small had one web.com and two Champions Tour starts. Kinda fishy, I guess. I guess it wouldn't kill them if they made a rule that you can't be eligible for this event if you've had more than two starts on the PGA, Web.com or Champions Tour in the last 12 months, but I could see that annoying a lot of people too. 

Constantine

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

Huh, so that's what happened to him.  I do remember his playing days and knowing who he was.

I have no problem with it.  Wasn't it a thing for a while to have country clubs that had a "pro" on staff who was really out playing tournaments and getting the club's name in the newspaper?

I might feel differently if Tom Watson were to try to enter the Club Professionals' events by virtue of his position at Greenbrier.  I cannot imagine him even considering doing so though.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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Wally Fairway Great Member

Wally Fairway

I could have guessed who you were talking about before even opening the thread. I've followed Omar's career since about 1992-93, which is when I caddied for my cousin in a Nike Tour qualifier in Louisiana and Omar was in his group.
Even with that one round his game impressed me, as he was able to manage his way around the course. He didn't hit it that long, hell he wasn't the longest hitter in the group, but he hit almost every green and shot 2 or 3 under. I don't remember if he qualified, because we shot a 75 (morning flight) packed up our stuff and headed back to Houston.

But I do know that Omar has qualified via this route for the past couple of years, and if the PGA had a real problem with it they would make rules changes. So who am I to say it isn't right.

Players play, tough players win!

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Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

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1 hour ago, Shindig said:

I have no problem with it.  Wasn't it a thing for a while to have country clubs that had a "pro" on staff who was really out playing tournaments and getting the club's name in the newspaper?

Near me there is one pro in particular who I think does just that.  The pro at Arroyo Trabuco is Michael Block and he's frequently doing well in the PGA tournaments and qualifying for the US Open.

I could certainly see that being something that would help the teaching and lesson business at that course.

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GolfLug Incredible Member

GolfLug

(edited)

IMHO, a pro is a pro. No handicaps literally or figuratively (i.e. level of pro). So passes my 'smell test'. Unless secondary filters like 'club pro' are in place. If it was such a differentiating factor then I am sure the filter would have found itself in place somehow.

I would think the top club pros are pretty damn good to hold their own in heady company.

Edited by GolfLug

Vishal S.

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

In 2011, Henrik Stenson entered a club championship and came in second place.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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BallStriker Great Member

BallStriker

This isn't little league FFS.....tee it up and play

"Getting paired with you is the equivalent to a two-stroke penalty to your playing competitors"  -- Sean O'Hair to Rory Sabbatini (Zurich Classic, 2011)

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zipazoid Great Member

zipazoid

3 hours ago, BallStriker said:

This isn't little league FFS.....tee it up and play

Exactly. 

If some player has an issue with Uresti winning...I would suggest that player shooting a lower score than him.

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mvmac Incredible Member

mvmac

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@David in FL brings up a good point, where do you draw the line? There is always going to be a player or two that stand out from the rest of the pack. It's not like Omar was having a successful playing career and used his PGA status to "game" the system. He still had to go out there and play good golf.

  • Upvote 1

Mike McLoughlin

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zipazoid Great Member

zipazoid

(edited)

"Club pros" or not - he beat a field of professional golfers. Kudos to him. it's not like he won the first flight of a club championship.

The only criticism I can muster is if his win keeps another pro (club pro) from playing in the PGA Championship. 

Edited by zipazoid
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Patch Incredible Member

Patch

His win was with in the rules, and he beat some pretty good golfers while doing it. I have no issues with it. Heck, if Sam Snead can win an lpga event legally, this is nothing. 

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

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