Cupped Wrist Curse

[Ladysmanfelpz]

Just read an article the other day about how lower handicappers tend to have a bowed or flat wrist while more amateurs and higher handicappers have a cupped wrist.  You see all about it on TV too, especially with the slow mo stuff nowadays, "Oh take a look at Dustin Johnson's bowed left yada yada yada."  Getting overplayed in my opinion.  But then I was thinking about it and its true.  Whereas pro's can have very different swings that they have drilled for years, none of them have cupped wrists.  You can have short or long backswings, flat or steep, or just straight unconventional like Furyk, and NONE of them have a cupped wrist.  So why is the flat/bowed leading hand so superior?  Is it just simply better club face control?

 

And why is cupped so bad?  Poorer club face control?  Does it rotated the face on the way down?  

 

I know I definitely have a cupped wrist and most people I play with do as well.  Its really only a few of my better friends who are pretty neutral in the lead wrist.  So my thought is, if it is a proven fundamental to a better swing, just fixing that one thing should have a proven beneficial impact.  When I try to work on it, my swing tends to feel so funky.  Weird how something as small as wrist angles can feel like it changes your whole swing.  I still would like to try and improve it however, so what are some drills I can work on to stop cupping and straighten that bad boy out?  

[Vinsk]

People often forget that some of golfs essential moves are performed by our human bodies quite often. It is just in the extremely awkward and timing nature of the golf swing where these ‘moves’ become so elusive. For the lead wrist. Imagine you’re hammering a door frame across your body with the frame to your left. (I assume you’re right handed.) You would never imagine striking the wood with a cupped wrist. Hell it would hurt! 

Drills: First off..go slow. No, slower than that. You can use an impact bag for this when at home. On the practice field, start with small shots. Maybe take your club back to waist high. Focus on your wrist being straight or slightly bowed at impact. There are some devices out that may help with this feeling. ‘Impact Snap’, ‘Watson’s Hanger’ to name a couple.

Film yourself, use a mirror. You’ll never really know if you’re doing it properly without visual confirmation. I often feel excellent impact, solid, and a divot after the ball only the see my wrists were just a hot mess at impact. 

Great place to do some reading. Tons of solid and well researched instruction:

 

 

[Ladysmanfelpz]

Yes I am right handed.  Back to your hammer metaphor, I feel like a lot of people fall into the cupped L wrist thing, because its more comfortable.  In fact picking up a hammer or other object with weight at end, I think most people cup, it seems unnatural to go bowed.  Cupped might not be more powerful, but definitely more comfortable.  

 

Will check out TST as well

[Vinsk]

11 minutes ago, Ladysmanfelpz said:

In fact picking up a hammer or other object with weight at end, I think most people cup, it seems unnatural to go bowed

We're talking about the impact. Not just picking up a hammer or any heavy head-weighted object. You wouldn't hammer in the method I described ordinarily, you'd use your right hand It's just an example. But if you imagine standing just outside a door frame with the intent to hammer the frame to your left with your left hand (back of hand facing the frame you're going to strike) you wouldn't do it with a cupped wrist.

In the same example, if you were to strike the frame with your trail hand (right hand) you would strike the wood with the hammer with a bent right wrist (dorsiflexed). You wouldn't bow your right wrist to hit the wood with your hammer.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Vinsk

[nevets88]

13 minutes ago, Ladysmanfelpz said:

Yes I am right handed.  Back to your hammer metaphor, I feel like a lot of people fall into the cupped L wrist thing, because its more comfortable.  In fact picking up a hammer or other object with weight at end, I think most people cup, it seems unnatural to go bowed.  Cupped might not be more powerful, but definitely more comfortable.  

 

Will check out TST as well

Definitely check out the link @Vinsk posted. But in a few words, it sounds like you're talking about the face position at the top of the swing. When it's cupped, for a righty, that face is open. When the face is open, that introduces a lot of compensations coming down. Subconsciously your body knows that face is pointing right and will kick the path left to compensate. Some Tour players have a slight cup at the top, but you can bet it's going towards flat/bowed coming down.

When talking bowed vs cupped, I usually am thinking impact, but wrist positions at top and impact are both super important.

[Piz]

I've given up worrying about my wrists.  What works for me is paying more attention to recognizing the top of my swing.  I spent 40+ years as a carpenter and the hammer analogy never made a lick of sense.  It is very easy to get loose at the top.  If you hit your marks you can forget about your wrists.

[colin007]

P sure the OP is talking about being bowed at the top, not at impact.

[billchao]

@Ladysmanfelpz, you can be cupped at the top of the backswing. Plenty of pros past and present are, not sure where you're getting your information from that they're not.

[Buckeyebowman]

I suffer from the same affliction. As far as pros exhibiting a cupped left wrist, I have to say I haven't seen much evidence of that, at least recently. I watch the super slo-mo videos on the golf telecasts, and I see flat left wrist after flat left wrist! 

I may be wrong, but I also think that cupping the left wrist could lead one to "cross the line" at the top of the backswing. That, coupled with an open clubface, is just begging you to park the ball in the woods right! No matter how hard you try to "correct" and save it. 

I also think that those "corrections" lead to a loss of efficiency in the swing which results in a loss of distance. I'm probably completely wrong, but these are just my cockamamie ideas. 

And wrist position is just one small aspect of the entire golf swing. But, you correct what you can.

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suffer from the same affliction. As far as pros exhibiting a cupped left wrist, I have to say I haven't seen much evidence of that, at least recently. I watch the super slo-mo videos on the golf telecasts, and I see flat left wrist after flat left wrist! 

I may be wrong, but I also think that cupping the left wrist could lead one to "cross the line" at the top of the backswing. That, coupled with an open clubface, is just begging you to park the ball in the woods right! No matter how hard you try to "correct" and save it. 

I also think that those "corrections" lead to a loss of efficiency in the swing which results in a loss of distance. I'm probably completely wrong, but these are just my cockamamie ideas. 

And wrist position is just one small aspect of the entire golf swing. But, you correct what you can.

These look pretty cupped to me.

 

 

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suffer from the same affliction. As far as pros exhibiting a cupped left wrist, I have to say I haven't seen much evidence of that, at least recently. I watch the super slo-mo videos on the golf telecasts, and I see flat left wrist after flat left wrist! 

Yeah, you're wrong. There are a bunch of cupped-at-A4 players making money on the PGA Tour.

[Buckeyebowman]

Good points above. But, don't both Couples and Daly look like they're across the line? And don't they both play a fade? Hey, if I could hit the ball like they do I'd never think about it. And how many instructors would teach people to swing like Daly? Or Couples for that matter. Freddie always had that "goofy" looking left arm at address. 

When I played at my best, I hit a sweet, little baby draw. Admittedly, that was a while ago. And I had no idea what my wrists were doing at A4. Maybe I should just forget about it and work on other things, but I can't help but think there could be something to it. 

[colin007]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Good points above. But, don't both Couples and Daly look like they're across the line? And don't they both play a fade? Hey, if I could hit the ball like they do I'd never think about it. And how many instructors would teach people to swing like Daly? Or Couples for that matter. Freddie always had that "goofy" looking left arm at address. 

When I played at my best, I hit a sweet, little baby draw. Admittedly, that was a while ago. And I had no idea what my wrists were doing at A4. Maybe I should just forget about it and work on other things, but I can't help but think there could be something to it.

Across the line means pointing to the right at the top when the club is parallel to the ground. If the club has continued going around in its arc and then past parallel to the ground, it has to point to the right, simple geometry, as is the case for both Daly and Couples.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Good points above. But, don't both Couples and Daly look like they're across the line? And don't they both play a fade? Hey, if I could hit the ball like they do I'd never think about it. And how many instructors would teach people to swing like Daly? Or Couples for that matter. Freddie always had that "goofy" looking left arm at address.

Beside the point. At A4 there are plenty of cupped lead wrists making a living on the PGA Tour.

[mchepp]

I don’t think the question is can a PGA Tour golfer make a living with a cupped wrist. They are athletes and can do things we lousy golfers cannot. The bigger question I think we should be asking to teaching professionals like @iacas is considering you are teaching a slouch like one of us would you rather they start A4 in a bowed position and try to hold it or go cupped and then try to get to a better wrist position by A7? Or does it matter? Basically what should we be trying to achieve as weekend warriors at A4 lead wrist position if we wanted to work on that? (I understand for many it wouldn’t be a priority piece but for the sake of conversation)

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, mchepp said:

I don’t think the question is can a PGA Tour golfer make a living with a cupped wrist. They are athletes and can do things we lousy golfers cannot. The bigger question I think we should be asking to teaching professionals like @iacas is considering you are teaching a slouch like one of us would you rather they start A4 in a bowed position and try to hold it or go cupped and then try to get to a better wrist position by A7? Or does it matter? Basically what should we be trying to achieve as weekend warriors at A4 lead wrist position if we wanted to work on that? (I understand for many it wouldn’t be a priority piece but for the sake of conversation)

A lot of people who are arched at the top will cup it during the downswing, and quite often going from cupped to arched it easier than going from arched to arched, or flat to flat.

There's no one answer. And cupped isn't terrible. Heck, I've been working to be a bit more cupped at the top (not a lot, but a little bit).

[nevets88]

@iacas - As I understand it, when you lay down the shaft, that encourages an open face. If you purposely bow your lead wrist, does the opposite hold? Does that tend to steepen the shaft, other things being equal?

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

@iacas - As I understand it, when you lay down the shaft, that encourages an open face.

It does? I don't think so. That's the wrong axis - it's not twisting around the shaft.

Golfers who cup the left wrist are more likely to steepens not lay down.

6 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

If you purposely bow your lead wrist, does the opposite hold? Does that tend to steepen the shaft, other things being equal?

Most golfers will shallow the shaft when they arch their wrist (but the opposite, while still generally true, is not as cause-effect-ish), and arching the wrist, because it's around the shaft axis, closes the face.