Tour Players and 2019 Rules (Running Topic)

[chspeed]

17 minutes ago, klineka said:

It's more about what has been said rather than who said it, IMO.

Fair enough. It's also when they say it. One thing to talk about it at the end of the season, another to go on and on in the middle of tournaments.

[saevel25]

13 hours ago, sjduffers said:

Despite being in his twenties, JT comes across as a whiny old bastard that always finds something to complain about. He may be a good player, but that is not an endearing quality at all and not how you grow the game, especially amongst young folks looking up to you.  So, grow the f**k up, Justin (and your buddy Rickie, too)!

Umm... You say he comes off as a winy old bastard, yet you want him to grow up?

32 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I agree about JT. The way he had a fan kicked out of tournament last year for rooting against him is still stuck in my craw.

This I don't mind. I never thought of golf as a sport were the athlete has to deal with a person being belligerent to them. At tournaments I've been to, I never once heard people go at a golfer like what Thomas described in the incident where he had that person thrown out.

Rory and Luke List did the same thing Thomas did a few weeks before he had the person kicked out of gallery.

 

[chspeed]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

This I don't mind. I never thought of golf as a sport were the athlete has to deal with a person being belligerent to them.

This is OT, but I only heard the guy yell "Get in the rough!" after a drive. I don't mind getting someone kicked out if the person is belligerent or gets personal. IMO, what I heard didn't fit that criteria. But there may have been a lot more I didn't hear.

[phillyk]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

It's the fact that the players (regardless of which players specifically) who are calling out the rules have made no effort to understand why the new rules were implemented. 

And really, they've had a year and more to voice their opinions to the USGA about the changes. By waiting until now to try these things and voice their dislike is... idk, sad really.  Some voice and face to the game of golf, who say the want to help grow the game but didn't for a year and a half that adjustments could have been made. 

I'm glad the USGA called JT out.  It also sets an example for anyone else that may want to try and call them out.  JT and others had a lot of time and opportunity to talk to the USGA about these changes.

[DeadMan]

14 minutes ago, phillyk said:

And really, they've had a year and more to voice their opinions to the USGA about the changes. By waiting until now to try these things and voice their dislike is... idk, sad really.  Some voice and face to the game of golf, who say the want to help grow the game but didn't for a year and a half that adjustments could have been made. 

I'm glad the USGA called JT out.  It also sets an example for anyone else that may want to try and call them out.  JT and others had a lot of time and opportunity to talk to the USGA about these changes. 

This is a really good point, and one I've been thinking about, too. The USGA published the proposed new rules 2 years ago, and let people comment on them for a long time. Did JT (or other players bitching about the rules) ever submit a comment? Did he even read the new rules when they were proposed?

[DaveP043]

What I find a bit ironic is the sequence of events with Thomas and the caddie alignment rule.  It was reported that Thomas had a voice in the McCarthy penalty

Quote

Now, the Tour has changed its mind after communicating with golf’s governing bodies and Justin Thomas, who expressed concern about the rule and a similar situation involving him and his caddie

That situation led to the clarification to that rule, which allowed a player much more leeway to avoid being penalized.  If I interpretative his comments right, Thomas seemed to take a good bit of credit for bringing about that clarification.

Now on Friday Schenk has his caddie in the wrong spot as he takes his stance, and eventually get penalized.  Even with the more lenient new clarification, the one Justin takes credit for bringing about, Schenk was clearly wrong.  And Thomas goes to Twitter again, saying the rule is a problem, there's no reason to have the rule.  Didn't they change the rule to suit him?  He seems to take credit for causing the change, but a month later the rule is bad? Couldn't he have commented (rationally) on the changes a month ago?

I think its a good time for both the players and the PGA Tour and the USGA to MAKE time to get together and work through some of this.  The most vocal players, Rickie and JT, look like whiny brats to many people, and the USGA didn't cover itself with glory by its tweet.  

[iacas]

I think the USGA’s tweet was great. They keep getting kicked by people who are ignorant. They finally called one out.

[gbogey]

Funny but the tour players seem to really have a beef with two rule changes.  1: the new drop, which may feel weird but quite frankly really isn't a big deal; 2: Caddie alignment which is really a pro only issue but clearly needed to be addressed due to LPGA issues.  Maybe that rule could be written better, but I don't know how and you would think if you were playing for big stakes you would be careful not to run foul of the rule.  They are careful in other circumstances, why not this one.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, gbogey said:

Funny but the tour players seem to really have a beef with two rule changes.  1: the new drop, which may feel weird but quite frankly really isn't a big deal; 2: Caddie alignment which is really a pro only issue but clearly needed to be addressed due to LPGA issues.  Maybe that rule could be written better, but I don't know how and you would think if you were playing for big stakes you would be careful not to run foul of the rule.  They are careful in other circumstances, why not this one.

What is maybe more surprising is that we haven't heard of a single LPGA player penalized for the caddie alignment thing, even though they were the most visible examples in previous years.  Perhaps women really ARE smarter than men.

As for whether its only a pro-only issue, I've realized it probably effects a lot of us ams as well.  I play an awful lot of my golf in some kind of team format, fourball match or stroke play, and very occasional foursome (alternate shot) play.  We'll have to remember that a partner can't stand behind once the player begins taking his stance.  

[DrMJG]

Ok, I finally have to put my 2¢ worth in.

JT and others remind me of the 8th grade "lawyers" I put up with in my classes.  They complain about every rule, even while others understand and adjust.  Even if rules are adjusted to make them clearer, they continue to complain.  From a 13-14  year old, it is part of the game of adolescence. From so called adults, It gets annoying. 

Yes, I understand they make big money.  They are lucky to have the skills and experience to do so.  That is still no excuse to act like spoiled children.

Now, back to trying to lower my HC some more and eliminate my nasty pull.

Edited March 4, 2019 by DrMJG

[boogielicious]

47 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

8th grade "lawyers

I like that one!!! Having coached boys at that level, this is a great comparison.

It baffles me why JT and others waited until now to complain. They had a long time to check the news rules out.

[iacas]

“That Rule is So Unfair!” A Rules Geek’s Generalized Guide to Hot Takes and Overreactions | Rules Geeks

---

I apologize for the length of this post. If I had more time I’d have written a shorter one. – Erik J. Barzeski “That Haotong Li penalty was an outrage! He didn’t gain an adv…

My reasons against a lot of the "hot takes" by fans over rules issues are:

• They Get The Rule Wrong
• They Don’t Appreciate that Rules Cover Many Situations
• They Don’t Understand the Reasoning Behind the Rules
• They Don’t Understand the Underlying Principles
• They Misuse the Word “Fair”
• They Assume Intent Matters
• They Think “The Spirit of the Rule” Matters
• They Side With the Players

Take a few minutes to read it. I'd love to hear what y'all think (in the comments over there).

[mvmac]

To me, a pro not knowing the rules is like an accountant not learning about the new tax laws.

When they don't understand the rules, they feel dumb and go on the attack, "rules are unfair", it's just ignorant.

[colin007]

Well this is becoming a complete fustercluck....wanting their own set of rules? Thinking they're bigger than the game? Eff these guys...

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/03/04/new-rules-garbage-pga-tour-golf-rules/

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

Well this is becoming a complete fustercluck....wanting their own set of rules? Thinking they're bigger than the game? Eff these guys...

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/03/04/new-rules-garbage-pga-tour-golf-rules/

These pros still continue to fall under the issues Erik addressed in his article. Until they come up with something intelligent to say it’s just a pack of whiney kids with grape koolaid mustaches complaining about the safety bar being to tight on Space Mountain.

[iacas]

Dumb take.

Dumb take.

In other words… "shut up, guys."

[DeadMan]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

In other words… "shut up, guys."

Really wonder if the players complaining even understand this. Or maybe they just feel that the PGA Tour isn't listening to them, which is an entirely different conversation.

But, like, complaining on twitter about the new rules after they've taken effect, when you could have done it during the comment period, is just showing off your ignorance.

[Fourputt]

22 hours ago, gbogey said:

Funny but the tour players seem to really have a beef with two rule changes.  1: the new drop, which may feel weird but quite frankly really isn't a big deal; 2: Caddie alignment which is really a pro only issue but clearly needed to be addressed due to LPGA issues.  Maybe that rule could be written better, but I don't know how and you would think if you were playing for big stakes you would be careful not to run foul of the rule.  They are careful in other circumstances, why not this one.

This is so simple that I find it a bit flabbergasting that they are having so much trouble getting it right.  Take the rule to heart for one practice round - player and caddie talk out various situations, deliberately set up in places where the caddie is unable to stand 10 feet off to the side as they normally do.  Decide then and there exactly how the two of you will handle any such incident when it happens in competition.  Take that practice round and and plan to take a drop every shot.  Ingrain the drop process through repetition, just as they do when they practice their swing. 

It would be nice for once to hear a pro talk about having done something like this, taking the game and its rules with the same professionalism as a CPA takes the tax laws.  After all, it's their job.  Rules knowledge classes should be a Tour mandate, with required attendance annually.   Let's see them for once being proactive and creating a plan for handling rules issues, rather than being reactive, getting penalized, and then just bitching about it.