2019 WGC Mexico Championship

[gjunkie57]

DJ is playing out of his mind! He has figured out how to play the course with all the variables involved.  Impressive.  

[boogielicious]

14 hours ago, jamo said:

The closeup of Rory taking to a rules official about his ball near a tree earlier was interesting. It kinda seemed like Rory was trying to pull one over on the guy. From "just like DJ on the last hole" to his logic for asking for a drop reeked of lying. I think the official seemed right in not giving him the drop. Maybe it's standard policy but Baker-Finch arguing for Rory to accept second opinion didn't make him seem great either. 

I don't think the announcers knew what direction the fairway was at the beginning of the review. I was confused too. Once we all realized the fairway was the other way, then it made much more sense.

[jamo]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

I agree slightly about the IBF comments.

Rory looked to be trying to play a shot in the opposite direction of where he ultimately ended up playing, which is why the RO was right to deny him.

Did I see that right? (I didn't pay 100% attention.)

I got pretty turned around, but I think that's correct. 

[3jacker]

On 2/22/2019 at 5:15 PM, iacas said:

He will be.

You don't know that. You don't know that at all.

For all you know, without the fines, we'd see ten instances of this per week.

True.  I think that based on my experience with humans over the years.

It's all just opinion here for the most part, no?

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, jamo said:

I got pretty turned around, but I think that's correct. 

Watch: Rory McIlroy denied drop, makes bogey at WGC-Mexico | Golf Channel

---

A hole after Dustin Johnson received free relief from a cart path Sunday at Chapultepec Golf Club, Rory McIlroy...

Just to clarify....

[nevets88]

I did not know that was number 20 for DJ. If you asked me his wins total, I would have guessed 15. So this means he is exempt on the tour for life, right? They still have that?

[Vinsk]

39 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I did not know that was number 20 for DJ. If you asked me his wins total, I would have guessed 15. So this means he is exempt on the tour for life, right? They still have that?

Not til 2022. You also have to have 15 years on tour. 

[Chasing_Bogeys]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

I agree slightly about the IBF comments.

Rory looked to be trying to play a shot in the opposite direction of where he ultimately ended up playing, which is why the RO was right to deny him.

Did I see that right? (I didn't pay 100% attention.)

I agree that Rory shouldn't have received the drop/relief. But his point that "it's just like DJ on the last hole" was accurate. Both completely in jail behind a tree next to a cart path. DJ managed to get his heel on the cart path in an effort to beg for a drop, Rory wasn't able to manage that con. I don't think either should have been given relief.

If I'm incorrect about the rule then I would argue that the rule is wrong. "I'm in jail here, what rule technicality can I use to escape" doesn't seem like the proper approach to the game.

[klineka]

Just now, Chasing_Bogeys said:

But his point that "it's just like DJ on the last hole" was accurate. Both completely in jail behind a tree next to a cart path. 

But the most important difference is DJ's foot was on the cart path when lined up to chip the ball back towards the fairway (his intended line of play) whereas in order for Rory to get his foot on the path, he would have had to play the ball in an entirely different direction than the direction he ended up playing in.

Had the cart path not been there for DJ, he would have played the same shot that he lined up for. Had the cart path not been there for Rory, he would not have lined up in the direction he did when his foot was on the path.

Another way to think about this is DJ used the rules to his advantage while Rory tried to take advantage of the rule. Big difference.

Direct quote of rule 16.1 section A

"(3) No Relief When Clearly Unreasonable to Play Ball. There is no relief under Rule 16.1:

• When playing the ball as it lies is clearly unreasonable because of something other than an abnormal course condition (such as when a player is standing in temporary water or on an immovable obstruction but is unable to make a stroke because of where the ball lies in a bush), or

• When interference exists only because a player chooses a club, type of stance or swing or direction of play that is clearly unreasonable under the circumstances."

In Rory's situation, he attempted to choose a direction of play that was clearly unreasonable under the circumstances (Going further left, away from the fairway and hole that he was on). The stance and direction of play that DJ chose was reasonable under the circumstances.

[GolfLug]

On 2/23/2019 at 5:47 PM, colin007 said:

His putting - distance control specifically - has been putrid. Some of his putts are shockingly bad.

So I was thinking about this last night. If I can get this little 'ball striking' thing figured out I will be good shape on tour. I can already putt as well as Tiger can.. lol.  

Ok, bad joke but yeah, not sure what was going on. It seemed he was less than present those two holes. I miss that eagle eyed focus he is so capable of. I hope he is a bit more pumped at the Masters.  

[Chasing_Bogeys]

26 minutes ago, klineka said:

But the most important difference is DJ's foot was on the cart path when lined up to chip the ball back towards the fairway (his intended line of play) whereas in order for Rory to get his foot on the path, he would have had to play the ball in an entirely different direction than the direction he ended up playing in.

Had the cart path not been there for DJ, he would have played the same shot that he lined up for. Had the cart path not been there for Rory, he would not have lined up in the direction he did when his foot was on the path.

Another way to think about this is DJ used the rules to his advantage while Rory tried to take advantage of the rule. Big difference.

Direct quote of rule 16.1 section A

"(3) No Relief When Clearly Unreasonable to Play Ball. There is no relief under Rule 16.1:

• When playing the ball as it lies is clearly unreasonable because of something other than an abnormal course condition (such as when a player is standing in temporary water or on an immovable obstruction but is unable to make a stroke because of where the ball lies in a bush), or

• When interference exists only because a player chooses a club, type of stance or swing or direction of play that is clearly unreasonable under the circumstances."

In Rory's situation, he attempted to choose a direction of play that was clearly unreasonable under the circumstances (Going further left, away from the fairway and hole that he was on). The stance and direction of play that DJ chose was reasonable under the circumstances.

All fair points and I'm probably wrong about the specifics of the rule as currently written. But in the spirit of the rule (I know I know... I'm going into a rabbit hole) - DJ could have easily found a stance for a reasonable swing that didn't have a foot on the cart path. Ball back in stance. Feet closer together. Either or both would have been reasonable for a low chip out to the fairway which is what he would have had to do if there wasn't a cart path there.

I'm certainly filing that away for my next $1 match!!! 🙂

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Chasing_Bogeys said:

All fair points and I'm probably wrong about the specifics of the rule as currently written. But in the spirit of the rule (I know I know... I'm going into a rabbit hole) - DJ could have easily found a stance for a reasonable swing that didn't have a foot on the cart path. Ball back in stance. Feet closer together. Either or both would have been reasonable for a low chip out to the fairway which is what he would have had to do if there wasn't a cart path there.

I'm certainly filing that away for my next $1 match!!! 🙂

You're coming at it from the wrong direction.

Players shouldn't be asked to take an abnormal stance to avoid free relief situations.

They are asked not to take abnormal stances to OBTAIN free relief situations.

[turtleback]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

I agree slightly about the IBF comments.

Rory looked to be trying to play a shot in the opposite direction of where he ultimately ended up playing, which is why the RO was right to deny him.

Did I see that right? (I didn't pay 100% attention.)

It kind of reminded me of the nonsense Sergio tried to pull in a Ryder Cup a few years age when he tried to claim he was intending to hit the ball backwards to try to get a drop.  I believe it was in a match against Anthony Kim.

[colin007]

3 hours ago, GolfLug said:

So I was thinking about this last night. If I can get this little 'ball striking' thing figured out I will be good shape on tour. I can already putt as well as Tiger can.. lol.  

Ok, bad joke but yeah, not sure what was going on. It seemed he was less than present those two holes. I miss that eagle eyed focus he is so capable of. I hope he is a bit more pumped at the Masters.  

 But you are not far off, I would wager to say that there are a few members here that could probably putt Tiger's spikes off the way he's been going recently

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, colin007 said:

 But you are not far off, I would wager to say that there are a few members here that could probably putt Tiger's spikes off the way he's been going recently

He hasn't been putting THAT bad by PGA tour standards though... for 2019 hes 82nd in strokes gained putting which is in the top half, and iirc, a podcast mentioned this morning that he ended up 38th or so strokes gained putting for this tournament which is right about average.

So he's been an average PGA tour putter this year.

Bad by his standards and what we expect out of him, sure, but not bad by PGA tour standards.

[gjunkie57]

51 minutes ago, klineka said:

He hasn't been putting THAT bad by PGA tour standards though... for 2019 hes 82nd in strokes gained putting which is in the top half, and iirc, a podcast mentioned this morning that he ended up 38th or so strokes gained putting for this tournament which is right about average.

So he's been an average PGA tour putter this year.

Bad by his standards and what we expect out of him, sure, but not bad by PGA tour standards.

Something to keep in mind. We see alot of Tigers putts on TV (maybe all) but few of the other players which skews perception of his actual performance against the field.

[Chasing_Bogeys]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

You're coming at it from the wrong direction.

Players shouldn't be asked to take an abnormal stance to avoid free relief situations.

They are asked not to take abnormal stances to OBTAIN free relief situations.

Do you think that the stance DJ took that put his foot on the path was the stance he would have taken if there were no path there and he had to hit the ball from that spot? (and to be clear, my tone is question, not challenge) You know the golf swing MUCH better than I do and you would have a MUCH better idea of what would be done there, so this will be my last comment, but fairly standard width stance and ball on front foot was the only way to get his foot onto the cart. Having to punch out from there I would have thought his stance would be more of a chipping stance with the ball on the back foot.

More succinctly - It's hard for me to believe that when he saw the ball and the cart path he had any thought other than "how do I make sure my foot is on the path and I get a drop?" or slightly more charitably "oh, cool, I'll get a free drop from this spot with the cart path there!"

I agree with all the comments on Rory - that shouldn't have been a drop.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Chasing_Bogeys said:

Do you think that the stance DJ took that put his foot on the path was the stance he would have taken if there were no path there and he had to hit the ball from that spot? (and to be clear, my tone is question, not challenge).

I didn't see it, except as a quick highlight, and it seemed reasonable to me that he'd take that stance. And I'm sure it would have seemed reasonable to the rules official on the scene if he granted it.

1 minute ago, Chasing_Bogeys said:

but fairly standard width stance and ball on front foot was the only way to get his foot onto the cart.

I don't know if you could tell that the ball was on his front foot. The camera angle I saw wasn't necessarily capable of showing you that.

Okay, I DuckDuckGo'd it.

That doesn't look like a front foot ball position to me. Looks just forward of center.

1 minute ago, Chasing_Bogeys said:

Having to punch out from there I would have thought his stance would be more of a chipping stance with the ball on the back foot.

Who says he had to chip out? He could have played a 120-yard shot or something from there.

1 minute ago, Chasing_Bogeys said:

More succinctly - It's hard for me to believe that when he saw the ball and the cart path he had any thought other than "how do I make sure my foot is on the path and I get a drop?" or slightly more charitably "oh, cool, I'll get a free drop from this spot with the cart path there!"

I don't see anything above in the image there that strikes me as all that fishy.

Sometimes the Rules can help you out. And you're not a bad person for using them that way.