LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Vinsk]

I can understand the desire for more money as anyone can. What I don’t really agree with are the already wealthy individuals who are jumping ship to an unscrupulous entity. Is it justified when someone who truly needs the money goes? Well, maybe not. But it just shows poor ethics in my mind when someone who has profited very generously from the PGA TOUR abandons it purely for more money. Not to secure their future. That’s already set. So these are the guys that I really don’t have much respect for. 

[DeadMan]

4 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

My guess is that it would be similar to other pro sports - if  LIV Golf player becomes expendable, they keep the guaranteed money and lose the rest.

That may be the rub, too. Some of these contracts are reportedly set up as advances. I'd bet that others have certain player guarantees to get the full amount. I don't think it's as simple as Pat Perez just keeping all of the money he got if he gets booted.

[Vinsk]

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

That may be the rub, too. Some of these contracts are reportedly set up as advances. I'd bet that others have certain player guarantees to get the full amount. I don't think it's as simple as Pat Perez just keeping all of the money he got if he gets booted.

Yeah I wonder if it’s really ‘up front.’ I’ve been offered sign on bonuses that were to be paid over a period of time. I wonder if some of these guys were given a bonus that is paid our monthly or added to their winnings in some incremental way.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, imsys0042 said:

Although by everything I read CH3 was a very nice guy, let's face it...he was the guy in your office who nobody could ever figure out what the heck he did and he just kind of milled around half the day.   In Simpson's parlance, he was a chair moistener.

It is harsh, because… CHIII was one of the most widely respected PGA Tour players. He'd earned a solid living for a LONG time, yet he could still go to most places and be unrecognized. Tour players have a deep respect for CHIII.

2 hours ago, Big C said:

I was prepared to post something to the effect of "Charles Howell's LIV signing bonus probably matched his career earnings on the PGA tour." Thankfully, I decided to look up CH's career earnings before posting because I was shocked. Did you know that Howell has earned over $42 million during his PGA tour career? Good for 23rd on the career money list? I suppose that's off topic, but it did surprise me.

That's what I'm saying up above.

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

That may be the rub, too. Some of these contracts are reportedly set up as advances. I'd bet that others have certain player guarantees to get the full amount. I don't think it's as simple as Pat Perez just keeping all of the money he got if he gets booted.

Pat Perez said that was BS. Whether he was spouting his own BS is another possibility, but… he said the bonuses were pre-paid and not advances, in the contract, etc.

I think maybe Brandel got that one wrong (I'd heard the same thing before BC started talking about it more).

[Aguirre]

They better be prepaid and in an offshore account. I do wonder what jurisdiction they are in. Places like the Caymans and Switzerland of course come to mind. But LIV is going to protect their investment, too. If a player skips a few events or has too many medical issues? That would be interesting. Particularly if the money is up front. 

[Vinsk]

10 minutes ago, Aguirre said:

They better be prepaid and in an offshore account. I do wonder what jurisdiction they are in. Places like the Caymans and Switzerland of course come to mind. But LIV is going to protect their investment, too. If a player skips a few events or has too many medical issues? That would be interesting. Particularly if the money is up front. 

It wouldn’t be difficult to just have a clause in the contract stating that the ‘sign on’ bonus will be paid back on a ‘time served’ pro rate if the player leaves prior to their ‘3 year’ commitment right?

[70sSanO]

They’ll just start a LIV Legends Tour with a 36 hole format played on Tuesday and Wednesday where the prize money will be keeping their bonus.

John

[ssbn611]

21 hours ago, DeadMan said:

That may be the rub, too. Some of these contracts are reportedly set up as advances. I'd bet that others have certain player guarantees to get the full amount. I don't think it's as simple as Pat Perez just keeping all of the money he got if he gets booted.

Perez signed a four year contract. He received $5M up front and the other $5M when he played in the Oregon tournament. I can't imagine the contract would allow them to drop a player and clawback any of the money already paid. The LIV Tour what maybe 20 or so names so far? They fill up the rest of the field with basically no name golfers. So it looks like they have plenty of room to sign more PGA Tour players. 

Say what you will about Perez, but he is the most honest about why he signed. He already has more money in less than a month on the LIV Tour than he was likely to earn in four more years (when he turns 50) on the PGA Tour. He has never lost his tour card and has had to grind it out the past few years. Why shouldn't he do something that secures the future for him and his family?  I know, the sports washing, but big money would tempt many people.
 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, ssbn611 said:

I know, the sports washing

That, and literally what he said like a month ago.

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

It is harsh, because… CHIII was one of the most widely respected PGA Tour players. He'd earned a solid living for a LONG time, yet he could still go to most places and be unrecognized. Tour players have a deep respect for CHIII.

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.  In more than 20 years he has amassed the grand total of three Tour victories.  He never even sniffed a major win, having exactly one top ten in a major.  He also had one top ten in a Players.  In over 20 years.  Yet this mediocre performance has allowed him to accumulate $43 million in winnings.  So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?  It gave him a lifestyle in the top .0001% of people on Earth.  But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.  For money.  Because being in the top .0001% isn't good enough.  Because he has to feed his family, donchyaknow.

[mcanadiens]

Those washed-up hacks are in for it now. Look who is on his way.

 

[saevel25]

33 minutes ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player. 

How many golfers maintain their tour card for 20 years? I think if you took every golfer, who has ever gotten a PGA Tour card, lasting 20 years on the PGA Tour. FYI, he is 21st in all time earnings on the PGA Tour. 

It's like the question, is a no-name offensive lineman who played 15 years in the NFL good. I think the answer is hell yea he is a good football player. He played in a league that very few get to play, he did so for 15 years, and he had a career that was 5x longer than what an average OL usually has. 

I think a bit of baseline perspective is warranted here. 

 

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.  In more than 20 years he has amassed the grand total of three Tour victories.  He never even sniffed a major win, having exactly one top ten in a major.  He also had one top ten in a Players.  In over 20 years.  Yet this mediocre performance has allowed him to accumulate $43 million in winnings.  So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?  It gave him a lifestyle in the top .0001% of people on Earth.  But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.  For money.  Because being in the top .0001% isn't good enough.  Because he has to feed his family, donchyaknow.

Obviously he needed a vacation from all that golf  

54 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It's like the question, is a no-name offensive lineman who played 15 years in the NFL good. I think the answer is hell yea he is a good football player. He played in a league that very few get to play, he did so for 15 years, and he had a career that was 5x longer than what an average OL usually has. 

Yes, but how often are you happy when you hear the name of one of your team's offensive linemen during a game?  Now I can't remember what point I wanted to make.  Was it that I think tournament professionals should want their name to be called on TV? 

[iacas]

@saevel25 said it pretty well, but to add to it for me…

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But here's the thing.  He's been on tour for more than twenty years, and by Tour standards has been a pretty mediocre player.

Mediocre is defined as "Of ordinary or undistinguished quality." or "of a middle quality."

CHIII is not that.

The average or "middle quality" Tour player does not earn $43M. They don't keep their Tour card for 20 years. They don't win three times.

Sorry, Tour players disagree vehemently with you. CHIII is, I'll say again, super widely respected for what he's done on the PGA Tour.

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

So just how terrible has the Tour been to him?

I don't know why you quoted me. I didn't say anything like that.

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

But when he should be falling on his knees in gratitude for what the Tour has done for him in providing him with that lifestyle, he stabs it in the back.

Yeah, I'm not a LIV fan of any type, but that's too much. He doesn't "owe" the PGA Tour anything. That's the deal he signed up for, and he lived up to his end, and the Tour lived up to their end.

If the Tour was funded by Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, few would have a problem with him "stabbing the PGA Tour in the back" to switch the the MJTW Tour.

[nevets88]

David Feherty making the jump, now official.

Photos: David Feherty joining LIV Golf, scenes throughout the years

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LIV Golf announced Friday that David Feherty, longtime NBC Sports and Golf Channel analyst and TV host, is its newest broadcaster.

 

[Aguirre]

On 7/21/2022 at 11:31 PM, Vinsk said:

It wouldn’t be difficult to just have a clause in the contract stating that the ‘sign on’ bonus will be paid back on a ‘time served’ pro rate if the player leaves prior to their ‘3 year’ commitment right?

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

[Shindig]

9 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

They might send them out to play anyway with a quote taken from a Rocky movie. 

[Vinsk]

9 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Yes, but injury and personal issues. How do you account for that as a skipped event if you're LIV?

Every corporation deals with this with their employees. But I guess it is different with golf. Missing a day of work unexpectedly is a bit different from missing a tournament. But I would think something similar could be created regarding personal/injury issues as they are in other sports.