Is the PGA Tour Good for Golf?

[Vinsk]

  On 2/20/2020 at 10:47 PM, Missouri Swede said:

A little off topic:

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Not the AMA, but the state(s) in which we are licensed have requirements for continued licensure (such as how many CME hours, and what topics must be included). And the health facilities I have contracts with have requirements for me. So even though I’m self employed, I have requirements I have to fulfill, even if I don’t think a particular requirement is useful.

 

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True. But we have hundreds of facilities we can go to to practice if we’re not happy at one place. Where does an ‘independent contractor’ of professional golf go to make their living if they rebuke the PGA TOUR?

[DaveP043]

  On 2/20/2020 at 11:02 PM, Vinsk said:

True. But we have hundreds of facilities we can go to to practice if we’re not happy at one place. Where does an ‘independent contractor’ of professional golf go to make their living if they rebuke the PGA TOUR?

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Europe, or Japan, or the mini-tours.

[Missouri Swede]

  On 2/20/2020 at 11:02 PM, Vinsk said:

True. But we have hundreds of facilities we can go to to practice if we’re not happy at one place. Where does an ‘independent contractor’ of professional golf go to make their living if they rebuke the PGA TOUR?

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European tour, Australasian tour, sunshine tour, or try to create the Premier Golf League. Become the next Titanic Thompson without any “tour” (he played my home course, I’m told).

Maybe not ideal choices, but they’re choices. You weigh the options, benefits, decide if the drawbacks/requirements are that bad. And recognize that the requirements of one tour/facility/state medical board are often similar to the others (or soon may change so they are).

[boogielicious]

  On 2/20/2020 at 10:13 PM, Vinsk said:

Most doctors are not self employed. And we don’t have to follow rules by the AMA even if we are.  Our rules are to do no harm. No entity ‘controls’ us. The AMA have zero control over us. Sorry, poor example.

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Aren’t you required to watch reruns of House?

[Vinsk]

  On 2/20/2020 at 11:17 PM, Missouri Swede said:

Maybe not ideal choices, but they’re choices.

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Lol. Sure. And I’m sure they can make the same or more from those tours as the PGA TOUR. 

And let’s remember...I know the least about the PGA TOUR business end of any of you. I’m just chewing the fat here.....😜

[imsys0042]

It may not be perfect but it does do a lot of good, generates a lot for charity and gives people the ability to see amazing things.   

[snapfade]

I think it's good for the business of golf. It's great advertising for equipment and clothes and so forth. People want to dress like their favorite player or use the same clubs so in that sense it's good for the companies. I enjoy the game on all levels so I enjoy the tour as well. 

[leftybutnotPM]

  On 2/20/2020 at 7:26 PM, boogielicious said:

So Pebble Beach, Torrey Pines, etc. are bad golf courses?

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? No. who said that?

[NJpatbee]

I voted "yes" with the understanding that no organization is perfect.  Sure, courses need to be set up to allow for maximum roll out in the fairway and some speedy greens to make it entertaining to the casual golf watcher.  The PGA Tour is in business for itself but their tournaments do raise good amounts of money for charities.  I watch some of most PGA Tour tournaments and do enjoy them and agree that they do help the business of golf. Although they are often involved in controversy I do look to the USGA to maintain the integrity of the game and sponsor the US Open championships.

[ncates00]

  On 2/20/2020 at 2:06 PM, DaveP043 said:

the PGA Tour is basically the property of the players themselves

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I don't think this is true.  

@DaveP043 

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

 

[DaveP043]

  On 2/21/2020 at 3:20 PM, ncates00 said:

I don't think this is true.  

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I'd be happy to learn more about it, if you have a source.  Every time I try to find out more, I read that the PGA Tour is a non-profit membership organization.  Perhaps someone can clue me in as to who the real "owners" of the tour are.

[ncates00]

  On 2/21/2020 at 3:39 PM, DaveP043 said:

I'd be happy to learn more about it, if you have a source.  Every time I try to find out more, I read that the PGA Tour is a non-profit membership organization.  Perhaps someone can clue me in as to who the real "owners" of the tour are.

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Non-profit organizations are not privately (or publicly) owned because they do not issue stock.  Nor can directors or officers own the organization, much less independent contractors--again, because there is no issuance to stock.  Therefore, there is no ownership interest in the organization.

For a good overview, see: 

Who “Owns” a Nonprofit?

---

Nonprofit “ownership” can be a confusing, counterintuitive concept.  It can implicate both financial and control issues for stakeholders. Consider the following scenario.

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by ncates00

[klineka]

  On 2/21/2020 at 3:10 PM, NJpatbee said:

Sure, courses need to be set up to allow for maximum roll out in the fairway and some speedy greens to make it entertaining to the casual golf watcher.  

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How does maximum roll out in the fairway and speedy greens make it more entertaining to a casual golf watcher?

IMO I don't think a casual golf watcher cares or really notices if the ball rolls 10 yards after it lands or 30 yards after it lands.

Same with the green speeds. A casual golf watcher most likely wont be able to tell the difference between a 10 stimp green and a 13 stimp green when watching on TV.

Edited February 21, 2020 by klineka

[DaveP043]

  On 2/21/2020 at 3:47 PM, ncates00 said:

Non-profit organizations are not privately (or publicly) owned because they do not issue stock.  Nor can directors or officers own the organization, much less independent contractors--again, because there is no issuance to stock.  Therefore, there is no ownership interest in the organization.

For a good overview, see: 

Who “Owns” a Nonprofit?

---

Nonprofit “ownership” can be a confusing, counterintuitive concept.  It can implicate both financial and control issues for stakeholders. Consider the following scenario.

 

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Thanks.  So for this type of organization, don't the members essentially determine the rules, select the management, that kind of stuff?  And don't the existing members make the rules about who gets to be a member? 

[ncates00]

  On 2/21/2020 at 5:33 PM, DaveP043 said:

Thanks.  So for this type of organization, don't the members essentially determine the rules, select the management, that kind of stuff?  And don't the existing members make the rules about who gets to be a member? 

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You're asking a different question now.  At first you were asking about ownership.  This question here addresses management & control; this is different.  A person can have both ownership and managment & control of their business--like a sole proprietor or a single member LLC or a closely held corporation, for instance.  However, many non-profit organizations are similarly structure to corporations (except the concept of ownership) in that they typically have a board of directors who pick officers to carry out the affairs of the business.  The PGA Tour does have some players who serve as directors, so in that sense, yes, the players do have a voice in deciding how the organization is run to some degree.  It depends on how the non-profit's governance structure is set up, i.e., voting power of the board.  

http://mediaguide.pgatourhq.com/Tour/WebTemplate/ElectronicMediaGuide.nsf/vwMainDisplay/7580E8B3A8830A538525761D005A1027?openDocument

[cutchemist42]

Wrote yes pretty comfortably while thinking they could do more to make the tv product better. I know the internet golf crowd has been saying it for awhile but I agree with most of the complaints. Just too many shots missed....

Personally when compared to other similar structured sports....I kinda wish the top tour of the sport was more international.

Like, I'd rather the PGA be more like the ATP with more globetrotting with multiple levels of tournies for players to pick from.

Edited February 22, 2020 by cutchemist42

[cutchemist42]

  On 2/20/2020 at 7:26 PM, boogielicious said:

So Pebble Beach, Torrey Pines, etc. are bad golf courses?

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Torrey Pines is not great.

Edited February 22, 2020 by cutchemist42

[Carl3]

Is the PGA Tour too successful for its own good? We have Jordan Spieth, age 26, with a net worth estimated at $100M. If this young man loses his hunger and desire to perform due to swimming in all of that money, where will this leave him? What will he do for the remainder of his days? It seems that there are a lot of young men who get hyped as perhaps the next great golfer and you wonder what that pressure can do to them. It makes for a great story and might get you to tune in on the weekend.

For a lack of a better word, are these young talents being pimped and is there too much money involved that can be a corrupting influence? Achieving a high net worth can reduce the amount of striving one does.