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I have had both my Pfizer shots now, it's been over a week since my 2nd shot, and I haven't had any side effects, except for a sore arm the first day. I get asked alot about whether I had symptoms or not by people who haven't had their vaccines yet and I always tell them 'no, except for a sore arm the first day'. I really don't consider a sore arm a symptom, it's really to be expected, anytime you stick a needle into someone's arm and inject fluid. I would rather just say that there were no symptoms and leave out talk bout a sore arm. Is a sore arm really a symptom?

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23 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

I have had both my Pfizer shots now, it's been over a week since my 2nd shot, and I haven't had any side effects, except for a sore arm the first day. I get asked alot about whether I had symptoms or not by people who haven't had their vaccines yet and I always tell them 'no, except for a sore arm the first day'. I really don't consider a sore arm a symptom, it's really to be expected, anytime you stick a needle into someone's arm and inject fluid. I would rather just say that there were no symptoms and leave out talk bout a sore arm. Is a sore arm really a symptom?

IIRC, it's one of the things the CDC had us self-reporting after first and second dose.  So yeah.  Significant? Depends. First one it lasted maybe a day.  Second maybe 3 days or so.  But CDC also wanted to know if it interfered with activities/work, if it required medical evaluation.

Edited by Missouri Swede
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Aloha, I do not come into the 19th Puka very much but I would love to share a quote from my Econ Guru that I fully agree with....

from Cafehayek.com 2/16, the font is large and may be bold, no one is screaming here...

I Am Insane

by DON BOUDREAUX on FEBRUARY 16, 2021

The following conclusion is now firmly set in (what remains of) my mind: If humanity’s reaction to Covid-19 is sane and rational, then sometime in the past 11 months I’ve lost my mind and I am now certifiably insane. If, instead, I remain reasonably in touch with reality and rationality, and am not completely insane, then most of my fellow human beings are utterly bonkers-mad.

Truly, I see no other alternative.

Recognizing that my attachment to reality might well be all but completely severed, I speak from the vantage point of reality as I perceive it (what else can I do?): The single-minded obsession with avoiding contact with the coronavirus, or with avoiding illness and death from Covid, is beyond my ability to comprehend. This obsession strikes me – in what I no longer doubt is my lunacy – as being as idiotic as obsessions can become.

Why does illness from Covid differ categorically from illnesses from other sources?

My fellow human beings seem now to be willing to suffer without limit deaths from causes other than Covid. To avoid Covid they’re willing to endure, indefinitely, isolation and misery and tyranny. They seem to have a fetish to be frightened out of their skins by incessant reports of Covid’s devilish dangers and to react to these reports like mindless lemmings.

I truly don’t get it. I look at the data on Covid and then at my fellow human beings – many of whom are close friends – and conclude, tragically for me, that I now inhabit a different reality than they inhabit.

Occam’s Razor leads me to the conclusion that the lost mind is not that of my fellow human beings but, rather, my own. I am insane. I am. Moi. There’s no other plausible explanation for what appears to me to be humanity’s inexplicably lunatic hysteria over Covid-19.

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8 hours ago, iSank said:

Aloha, I do not come into the 19th Puka very much but I would love to share a quote from my Econ Guru that I fully agree with....

from Cafehayek.com 2/16, the font is large and may be bold, no one is screaming here...

I Am Insane

by DON BOUDREAUX on FEBRUARY 16, 2021

The following conclusion is now firmly set in (what remains of) my mind: If humanity’s reaction to Covid-19 is sane and rational, then sometime in the past 11 months I’ve lost my mind and I am now certifiably insane. If, instead, I remain reasonably in touch with reality and rationality, and am not completely insane, then most of my fellow human beings are utterly bonkers-mad.

Truly, I see no other alternative.

Recognizing that my attachment to reality might well be all but completely severed, I speak from the vantage point of reality as I perceive it (what else can I do?): The single-minded obsession with avoiding contact with the coronavirus, or with avoiding illness and death from Covid, is beyond my ability to comprehend. This obsession strikes me – in what I no longer doubt is my lunacy – as being as idiotic as obsessions can become.

Why does illness from Covid differ categorically from illnesses from other sources?

My fellow human beings seem now to be willing to suffer without limit deaths from causes other than Covid. To avoid Covid they’re willing to endure, indefinitely, isolation and misery and tyranny. They seem to have a fetish to be frightened out of their skins by incessant reports of Covid’s devilish dangers and to react to these reports like mindless lemmings.

I truly don’t get it. I look at the data on Covid and then at my fellow human beings – many of whom are close friends – and conclude, tragically for me, that I now inhabit a different reality than they inhabit.

Occam’s Razor leads me to the conclusion that the lost mind is not that of my fellow human beings but, rather, my own. I am insane. I am. Moi. There’s no other plausible explanation for what appears to me to be humanity’s inexplicably lunatic hysteria over Covid-19.

This guru should stick to Economics.

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9 hours ago, iSank said:

Aloha, I do not come into the 19th Puka very much but I would love to share a quote from my Econ Guru that I fully agree with....

from Cafehayek.com 2/16, the font is large and may be bold, no one is screaming here...

I Am Insane

by DON BOUDREAUX on FEBRUARY 16, 2021

The following conclusion is now firmly set in (what remains of) my mind: If humanity’s reaction to Covid-19 is sane and rational, then sometime in the past 11 months I’ve lost my mind and I am now certifiably insane. If, instead, I remain reasonably in touch with reality and rationality, and am not completely insane, then most of my fellow human beings are utterly bonkers-mad.

Truly, I see no other alternative.

Recognizing that my attachment to reality might well be all but completely severed, I speak from the vantage point of reality as I perceive it (what else can I do?): The single-minded obsession with avoiding contact with the coronavirus, or with avoiding illness and death from Covid, is beyond my ability to comprehend. This obsession strikes me – in what I no longer doubt is my lunacy – as being as idiotic as obsessions can become.

Why does illness from Covid differ categorically from illnesses from other sources?

My fellow human beings seem now to be willing to suffer without limit deaths from causes other than Covid. To avoid Covid they’re willing to endure, indefinitely, isolation and misery and tyranny. They seem to have a fetish to be frightened out of their skins by incessant reports of Covid’s devilish dangers and to react to these reports like mindless lemmings.

I truly don’t get it. I look at the data on Covid and then at my fellow human beings – many of whom are close friends – and conclude, tragically for me, that I now inhabit a different reality than they inhabit.

Occam’s Razor leads me to the conclusion that the lost mind is not that of my fellow human beings but, rather, my own. I am insane. I am. Moi. There’s no other plausible explanation for what appears to me to be humanity’s inexplicably lunatic hysteria over Covid-19.

Is he saying we are crazy for trying to avoid death?  Is trying to avoid COVID until we can understand & control it any different then when leprosy was an unknown?

Also, with proper precautions you can interact with others, you do not have to live in isolation.

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46 minutes ago, David in FL said:

😂😂😂

Still bummed that the 3 of us couldn't play

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2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

This guru should stick to Economics.

I agree. And, I question the accuracy of some of his "economics" as well - but not in this thread...

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To play devil's advocate a bit… I get what he's saying to some extent, and that's just that people are doing SO much to avoid something that has a death rate that's still quite low (COVID isn't killing 5% of 45-year-olds).

Now, I'm still willing to give up those things, particularly as we're closer now than ever to being "done" with it from a major life interrupting status. But I think his argument is just that doing x would be fine given the risk(s), but we're doing x, y, z, 1, 3, 7, and 42, if you get what I'm saying.

I think he's just saying that people have, in general, over-reacted.

I try not to spend too much time on that. If I get COVID, I can't teach my juniors for at least about two weeks. I put my college team's season in jeopardy. My wife would put the lives of her kids (and all of her kids relatives) in jeopardy… etc. Small jeopardy, but again, since we're so close to the end, I'm willing to do it. Almost all of it.

But I'm not a shut-in. I still get out. I still teach. I wear a mask when doing it, etc.

Maybe his friends are virtual shut-ins right now. Maybe his perspective is wildly different than ours. So maybe he feels they're doing way too much. And maybe, where they are, many of us would agree. Few of us are staying at home 24/7/365, right? We're going out, as in leaving our houses now and then. Less than a year ago, but more than never.

No?

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10 minutes ago, iacas said:

To play devil's advocate a bit… I get what he's saying to some extent, and that's just that people are doing SO much to avoid something that has a death rate that's still quite low (COVID isn't killing 5% of 45-year-olds).

Now, I'm still willing to give up those things, particularly as we're closer now than ever to being "done" with it from a major life interrupting status. But I think his argument is just that doing x would be fine given the risk(s), but we're doing x, y, z, 1, 3, 7, and 42, if you get what I'm saying.

I get it that "Overkill" exists.  For me, I do take precautions (Wear mask, wash hands, use hand sanitizer after going in a store or restaurant, etc.) but I also will go out to eat (now that they are open again in Michigan) and will meet clients face-to-face if they are comfortable with it.  This afternoon I am meeting a client face-to-face and on Sunday I am taking my 91 year old father out for a steak dinner with his two sisters and a couple of my cousins.  You can be safe without going to the extremes and you do not need to be isolated.

Edited by StuM
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My fellow human beings seem now to be willing to suffer without limit deaths from causes other than Covid. To avoid Covid they’re willing to endure, indefinitely, isolation and misery and tyranny. They seem to have a fetish to be frightened out of their skins by incessant reports of Covid’s devilish dangers and to react to these reports like mindless lemmings.

I truly don’t get it. I look at the data on Covid and then at my fellow human beings – many of whom are close friends – and conclude, tragically for me, that I now inhabit a different reality than they inhabit.

Occam’s Razor leads me to the conclusion that the lost mind is not that of my fellow human beings but, rather, my own. I am insane. I am. Moi. There’s no other plausible explanation for what appears to me to be humanity’s inexplicably lunatic hysteria over Covid-19.

I think his take is a bit off. 

I can understand the stats and come to a completely different conclusion than he does and it doesn't mean I am frightened out of my mind. 

I feel like he doesn't grasp that everyone has a different perception of what is going on. Maybe he is only around people who take things to the extreme side of reaction, but I think his take is just wrong. 

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Our friend's mother is in the hospital suffering from delirium caused by the vaccine. Before you all jump me, this is a doctors diagnosis, not mine. 😥

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14 hours ago, iSank said:

Aloha, I do not come into the 19th Puka very much but I would love to share a quote from my Econ Guru that I fully agree with....

from Cafehayek.com 2/16, the font is large and may be bold, no one is screaming here...

I Am Insane

by DON BOUDREAUX on FEBRUARY 16, 2021

The following conclusion is now firmly set in (what remains of) my mind: If humanity’s reaction to Covid-19 is sane and rational, then sometime in the past 11 months I’ve lost my mind and I am now certifiably insane. If, instead, I remain reasonably in touch with reality and rationality, and am not completely insane, then most of my fellow human beings are utterly bonkers-mad.

Truly, I see no other alternative.

Recognizing that my attachment to reality might well be all but completely severed, I speak from the vantage point of reality as I perceive it (what else can I do?): The single-minded obsession with avoiding contact with the coronavirus, or with avoiding illness and death from Covid, is beyond my ability to comprehend. This obsession strikes me – in what I no longer doubt is my lunacy – as being as idiotic as obsessions can become.

Why does illness from Covid differ categorically from illnesses from other sources?

My fellow human beings seem now to be willing to suffer without limit deaths from causes other than Covid. To avoid Covid they’re willing to endure, indefinitely, isolation and misery and tyranny. They seem to have a fetish to be frightened out of their skins by incessant reports of Covid’s devilish dangers and to react to these reports like mindless lemmings.

I truly don’t get it. I look at the data on Covid and then at my fellow human beings – many of whom are close friends – and conclude, tragically for me, that I now inhabit a different reality than they inhabit.

Occam’s Razor leads me to the conclusion that the lost mind is not that of my fellow human beings but, rather, my own. I am insane. I am. Moi. There’s no other plausible explanation for what appears to me to be humanity’s inexplicably lunatic hysteria over Covid-19.

hmm.... I went to Chicago Public School. And this dude used way too many big words. 

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13 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

hmm.... I went to Chicago Public School. And this dude used way too many big words. 

😄  (Dammit, that makes me chuckle everytime you say that)

Edited by Double Mocha Man
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26 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

😄  (Dammit, that makes me chuckle everytime you say that)

I appreciate that. It makes me chuckle to say it. 
In this case, it's also true. I think the person who wrote this quote went to such lengths to use flowery language that I'm literally getting confused as to what exactly is being said. 

I think he's saying we are all idiots for avoiding unnecessary contact. 

To which I say, Look, if you saw somebody with snot running out of their nose, coughing and sneezing, you'd avoid them, right? Well, the problem with Covid is not everyone has any symptoms at all, so conceivably anyone "could" have it. So, you just don't know who to avoid. The only solution is to assume everyone has it. 

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3 hours ago, StuM said:

I get it that "Overkill" exists.  For me, I do take precautions (Wear mask, wash hands, use hand sanitizer after going in a store or restaurant, etc.) but I also will go out to eat (now that they are open again in Michigan) and will meet clients face-to-face if they are comfortable with it.  This afternoon I am meeting a client face-to-face and on Sunday I am taking my 91 year old father out for a steak dinner with his two sisters and a couple of my cousins.  You can be safe without going to the extremes and you do not need to be isolated.

I see society as being controlled by fear a bit too much. I go shopping, out to breakfast with friends, go to the shooting range, go to TopGolf, and other things. I realize covid can kill some, and if it's my turn so be it. I take all the precautions, have gotten both Pfizer vaccines, but dam it I will not be locked in. There is death for many who stay locked in by not getting proper exercise, socializing, basic enjoyment in life.

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4 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

I see society as being controlled by fear a bit too much. I go shopping, out to breakfast with friends, go to the shooting range, go to TopGolf, and other things. I realize covid can kill some, and if it's my turn so be it. I take all the precautions, have gotten both Pfizer vaccines, but dam it I will not be locked in. There is death for many who stay locked in by not getting proper exercise, socializing, basic enjoyment in life.

You know, if you die from Covid it really messes with your shoulder turn and lag...

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31 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

I realize covid can kill some, and if it's my turn so be it.

That's fine, until your actions lead to someone else's detriment/illness/death.

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